Toxic Bin Seat
@CheekyClackers
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Toxic bin. Consultant SHO. Doing masters to be Consultant Advanced Clinical Practitioner. Anon profile as GMC is a bully organisation. Not a doctor. Lecturer.
United Kingdom
Joined October 2018
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I am certain Doctors are purely used in the guise of a “training programme” that involves rotating in hard to fill places/rotas/depts- to do the work no one else can, will or has liability to do. The carrot of training and future good pay used to be enough to quell some. Not now.
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@dr_merritt
Respectfully - as a trainee who worked in your trust- I can honestly say my training was impacted by the PA role with lost opportunities to learn. It was incredibly tough.
There is a huge disconnect between your level of management and the trainees. It’s not just your trust.
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the lack of insight is palpable.
imagine if you had to rotate every 4 months, study for exams outside of work, have terrible pay, do nights and weekends, have 100k+ student debt, only take limited annual leave within each rotation, move across the country to work, be disresp..
Imagine the resilience you've got to have to be a Physician Associate right now.
Stay strong 💪🏽
#physicianassociate
#BeKind
@FPARCP
@gmcuk
@RCPhysicians
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@NHSEngland
This is propaganda, pure and simple. PAs are overpaid. Taking training opportunities from doctors in training. They are being used as less trained doctors. Doctors are being artificially suppressed with training bottlenecks to bloat the SHO level. It's disgusting.
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@ClareGerada
@iDrSunny
@DeanEggitt
@TheBMA
@BMA_GP
Clare for goodness sake - stop this nonsense. They are less qualified. They see patients in the community but with less training. You cannot simply pull the wool over our eyes.
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@DrEilidhMaria
I am absolutely fed up of being disrespected.
Med students not taught how to safely prescribe?! PSA. Being taught this for 5 f**king years. FIVE.
Accessibility and get to know? Oh sorry my bad again. I forgot I like to rotate across the country every few months. I am fuming.
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@nandwics
This propaganda is awful.
Abdominal pain and the differentials are so broad. I struggle as a doctor.
It’s not good enough to diagnose “ibs” like that PA famously did for the person who tragically died of cancer.
It’s so complex and is why medical training amd doctors exist
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@NHSE_WTE
yeah the pathway exists...it's called GEM.
Of course choose to ignore concerns and create doctors in name only to make figures look better. absolute joke and shameful
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@AlkadhiO
@A03580132276
@veggieequallife
@RooDoherty
@markr1004
@PenfoldJohanna
If toxicity could be defined in one tweet…no wonder no one felt comfortable speaking out. The whole situation absolutely stinks.
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@csubbe
So do you think whatsapping a doctor to do a PAs TTOs and discharge letters is good work flow? I think the broader point is true that the role is poorly defined and doctors in training are being affected. It’s not fair and it’s the Wild West. Doctors also deserve training.
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@HSJEditor
@BMA_JuniorDocs
Let me see. They are creating force bottlenecks for training. Replacing us with lesser qualified and higher paid MAP assistant roles. We lost 35% of our pay since 2008. We are treated like children - even the word “junior” is insulting. In light of this, yes I think the BMA do.
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@RCOphth
Medicine on the cheap and less qualified. Only they aren’t cheap but the latter point still stands. Thanks for screwing your junior members big time.
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The current trend to think medicine can be learnt on the job will be a failed experiment. It won't be years until this flavour of the week ends but I fear and predict it will end due to devastating consequences. Mark my words.
@gmcuk
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The UK has revolutionised medical training. We are creating reg practitioners from masters degrees.
No other country has managed this and we are leading the world in pursuing this.
I just don’t understand why our health outcomes are some of the lowest in the developed world.🤷🏽♂️
Can we do an MSc as doctors and bypass our training pathway to work at reg level? Would be much more time efficient.
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@drcolinm
@Molly2323232323
@Xeon4f145d96s1
@VincentVanGrump
@ukmat82
@GMC
So they aren't regulated. Ironic that your argument is that you won't regulate them as they are not in training yet they are taking training opportunities away from doctors in training.
Just be honest and say that it is a political decision to force MAPs into the workforce.
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@dr_merritt
I think this comes up time and time again. The GMC is a huge issue. Also we have to get signed off in ARCP. They are both huge barriers to speaking openly. Which is why so many are turning to comment anonymously. It’s very difficult to speak openly without fear of reprimand.
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So if I pass the theory exam to become a pilot, that means I can go fly a 747 to New York tomorrow?
Think I ought to be allowed to take the PA exam tomorrow and become pals with the consultants. AT LEAST THEN I GET >35% PAY RISE, LESS HOURS, MON-FRI 9-5!!
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@VictoriaAtkins
This is propaganda, pure and simple. PAs are overpaid. Taking training opportunities from doctors in training. They are being used as less trained doctors. Doctors are being artificially suppressed with training bottlenecks to bloat the SHO level. It's disgusting.
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There are some cracking Doctor anon accounts recently. MedTwitter doesn’t like it, which is why it definitely should be happening. Let the truth be known (whilst also not letting the GMC screw us). We will be on the right side of history one day. No ladder puller can stop us.
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@DrHoenderkamp
@DocAnonX
@DianaBlackburne
@drdavidbull
@prema14
Classic pulling the ladder up behaviour. How much were your tuition fees? How competitive was it for you to enter training? How much was your first house relative to now? Don’t bother trying to understand as you are miles off knowing pal
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@RCollEM
@EMTAcommittee
@EMSAS_RCEM
@RCEMACPForum
@RCEMpresident
@RCEMdean
@RCEMPolicyVP
@RCEMmembersVP
@dsdarbyshire
@RCEMACPChair
@RCEM_VP
@6bd20de2260e4ea
You really want to die on this hill RCEM? Well done for causing a generation of doctors to apply elsewhere - we’ll see how you get on. Absolutely disgrace and you should be ashamed of how you treat those who have devoted their lives for your speciality.
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ah yes the well known lie that is UK medical "education".
It makes hyperotation away from loved ones on poor pay really worth it.
As permanent members of staff, I wonder if other AHPs also have their training paused during this time? I somehow feel I know the answer already.
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The fact we need a campaign to stop less trained roles replacing appropriately trained and regulated roles.
The fact they are less trained and paid more than many grades of Doctor is just completely inept management and a total insult to the profession
@DailyMailUK
The
@DailyMailUK
launch a campaign to rein in unsafe scope of practice by PAs.
Common sense.
And hopefully the media understand that our pay demand is only to be paid as much as our assistants! 😯
Pay restoration = common sense too.
via
@MailOnline
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@SteveBarclay
@TheSun
Here we go again. Have some guts and face up to live scrutiny like the BMA have done.
The pay offer was derisory at best. I’m not surprised RCN rejected it. Stop your stubborn preconditions and get round the table with the unions. Maybe we are angry for a reason?
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@SteveBarclay
@NHSEngland
I don’t give a shit. I am striking to get my pay restored. This means nothing. I’ll see my colleagues on the picket line. Don’t give in to these corrupt individuals
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@becca_sisson
@DocAnonX
@EthersonKevin
@Dr_Done_
@noodles_nood
@BMA_JuniorDocs
@SteveBarclay
Former trainee to their former consultant
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@ZainKhanMed
ffs - just imagine seeing this in any grad entry programme. Having done 2 - I can assure you they treat you like the professional you are
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So here we have it....a PA conversion course to come....seriously what are we doing
"If we want to tackle the crisis in GP numbers, we should establish a pathway for physician associates to go on to train as doctors and for newly qualified doctors to go straight into five years’ training as GPs."
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@SImonBu14712300
@doctorsp194
@r1chardf1tzg3r1
@SteveBarclay
@AACE_org
@ParamedicsUK
@wesstreeting
@TheBMA
@rcgp
@TheBHF
@RCollEM
I have never met any ACP working at reg level. If you think a masters gets you to reg level you are totally out of line. Stop feeding crap to people
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@HugoGye
@theipaper
Why does Wes have such an issue with Doctors. I can assume him that 25% real terms pay loss since 2008, sitting on bins to work on crap computers and infantilisation of our work duties means we do not dictate. But we can and are leaving to avoid this sh*t
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@elinlowri
@gaslad
I think you will be surprised what many really think Elin. Don’t want that ES/CS report at risk do we... “Yeah it’s great that my opportunities for learning are getting shafted by PAs and ACPs backed by Consultants who didn’t have to deal with it back in the day…great!”
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@Xeon4f145d96s1
It’s a total and utter disgrace that this is allowed to happen. Please can we get lawyers onto this? NHS employers can’t and will not get away with this long term.
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@BTHFT
@uhbtrust
Just remember many many cardiology and radiology trainees would love to have attended their course but could not afford to self fund despite it being their chosen speciality - just let that sink in.
But sure - medicine on the cheap (which it isn’t in reality) is better, right?
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@DrRichardPile
I completely disagree with you. If i didn't have my medical degree I would feel far less confident. From watching other roles who don't it really shows. Stop devaluing the profession. Most medical students take it very seriously.
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@DRROBERTROYCE
How much were your student fees. Can you tell us your pension? Did you ever pay for professional exams? Did you ever have to pay for the GMC? (but you aren’t a medical doctor are you Dr Royce?) Did you ever pay for your college fees? Did you have to move every year? Head in sand
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@DrEilidhMaria
The NHS want you to think it’s unprofessional so they can save face. It’s not unprofessional to highlight concerns, even if it’s an opinion. That’s what a toxic NHS does to people
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@VictoriaAtkins
Appreciate that the tone of debate has changed and more constructive minister. However, why are physician assistants who are less qualified paid more than a doctor? we aren't even asking our pay to be as much as theirs (how nuts is that)...please justify this
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@BritSocHaem
Pay inequity which “seem to need resolving”?! Are you actually taking the piss?!
This is a shameful statement which I can absolutely promise is not supported by the majority of doctors. This is a really weak and complete sell out statement and only serves the senior management
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@DrIpFeed4
The NHS is so toxic. Bet the people who wanted and put locks on microwaves and fridges (just read that again…wtf) spent more time doing this than their job. Pathetic.
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This is just plain unfair - no one can ever justify how this is fine based on skills and training. No one.
@Parody_RCGP
Thinking of doing GEM in London? It’ll take you 20 years *if you manage to get right through training as fast as possible* to make the money up, assuming no children or time off etc
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Are we as a profession doing anything about this? I honestly wouldn’t know where to start but we must do something. It’s getting out of hand and there’s no consultation or anything. It’s just thrust upon us.
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This requires an honest answer.
I mean we all know it is simply because they can’t afford Doctors to leave and apply.
It is unethical, unfair and wrong. Shameful and we will look back and think wtf was going on back then. The dinosaurs making decisions don’t care.
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@gem1509
It’s disrespectful, completely false and I want to know who wrote this. Did they do medicine? It shows the lengths of people to distort the truth to suit a political narrative.
It’s a shame that on the shop floor the gulf in standards is all too apparent.
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@SteveBarclay
You are a disgrace - Doctor and Nurse pay needs fixing and you can’t hide
@SteveBarclay
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@BMA_JuniorDocs
We as doctors do not begrudge those with pay rises. We simply wanted to be paid fairly and restore our pay! These comparisons are vital to put the point across to the public. Virtue signalling and clout hunting by the comparison police for likes got us no where before
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@BuddGeorgie
Georgie I listened to your motion and I found it deeply frustrating and only reaffirmed that I had to vote for the motion. “Because they are here” isn’t really helpful in this situation.
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@RCSnews
Why are trainees all saying they cannot get enough experience as they are stuck on the wards whilst surgical care practitioners/PAs are in theatre. No there isn’t enough to go around. Doctors deserve training - they have trained for this. If you keep ignoring, they will leave.
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Today is the grimmest day I can remember on a professional level. The propaganda onslaught is very sinister. It shows no respect to Doctors & is so dangerous for patients. The guess work political decisions will have damning consequences for the public. Stick together colleagues
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this is f**king sickening. why do we keep going? the sheer disrespect alone....
👀 Spot the difference 👀
Post CCT/ST8 neurosurgeon in London commands the same salary as a PA straight out of uni 🤯
15+ years studying medicine Vs 2yr PA degree
Who would you want operating on you?
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This is obscene. Insulting to doctors and completely awful for patients. The PA role is a complete shit show and we are just letting it happen unchallenged as a healthcare system? Please this needs to absolutely STOP now. So dangerous.
@DrEilidhMaria
@Dr_Done_
@emmamac2
Confessions of a newly qualified PA from the bin fire. Why are they holding the bleep? Why are they surgically closing patients unsupervised? Why do they admit not knowing A&P in post? Why do ‘all doctors’ go to them? 🤡
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I have never read so much bollocks regarding job roles in such a long time.
Why make job roles confusing? Don’t take the public for fools. They will bite back. Maybe focus on patient care and good training. Doctors are well qualified too and can help, you know?
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@juniordoctors_
I too did ACCS in urology - I perfected my technique in TTOs as described by PA on WhatsApp
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@VictoriaAtkins
Minister Atkins - I appreciate you have come in with a more engaging approach. However, the key issue is restoration of pay. Not a one off pay offer far below restoration. A credible offer needs to be offered which addresses this.
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done. takes 2 seconds. make some f**kin noise about this debacle
🚨Take Urgent Action Now🚨
The GMC and the government are trying to force GMC regulation of PAs and through the backdoor without scrutiny or debate tomorrow.
This is time critical.
Write to your MP NOW.
You can reply as a doctor, a patient, or both.
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@DaveAtherton20
@X
@StGeorgesTrust
She is not a physician/doctor. She is a physician assistant - so she is paid more than most doctors to have less responsibility with less training and have better hours. Sounds like she’s been busy in her spare time…
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@NHSE_WTE
Honestly ACP back slapping is at an all time high. Look forward to the moment when reality hits
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The imbalance in respect an F1 gets compared to this and they aren’t even as well qualified, really is a kick in the teeth for all doctors.
Why even bother? The system is clearly trying to force a role with some kind of respect but we all know it’s a load of bullshit
This PA ‘qualified’ in 2017
This PA would be finished FY1 ONE MONTH
This PA works CONSULTANT ON CALL rota
This PA does procedures that you jump through infinite hoops to do
This PA reaps all the rewards of your hard work
*How many F1s have a dedicated
@BritSocGastro
page?*
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So likening anaesthetists who have extensively trained most of their lives to do their jobs as “Dads Army” and accusing trainees as “having a go” in their training as respectful? Pot the kettle
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@thesalariedGP
@binta1uk
@Dr_Done_
As a GP registrar this is incredibly insulting and working with them both in primary and secondary care is not true at all. What the hell.
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@TAkbar
@ShaunLintern
Clear governance?! You must be JOKING. Appreciate PA's give you a job but give me strength!
You can't keep ignoring trainees (and i note senior clinicians now having finally started speaking out) concerns about the impact on training and patient safety MAP roles are having.
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It’s embarrassing & I’m furious that me & my colleagues are suffering from worse training and patients unsafe care due to PAs and we get paid less despite having more training.
@VictoriaAtkins
clearly had no clue. Maybe do your reading and you will understand why we are furious.
'They are there to work alongside doctors not instead of doctors.'
Health Secretary Victoria Atkins reiterates 'regulations' on physician associates after the death of 30-year-old Emily Chesterton.
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@Kleenex_UK
@LisaMHancox
@Kleenex_UK
@LisaMHancox
It's both your right to say and act as you wish. But I must say you both are complete melts and total wetties for 1. Lisa being a sensitive soul and fabricating a story due to the name of a tissue and 2. Kleenex succumbing to this tosh to look "sincere"
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So much arrogance by a PA Locum agency…RCGP are a disgrace to ever let it happen but that’s an aside
PAs are paid too much and Doctors aren’t paid enough. Even FPR won’t get us to their pay- that’s how ridiculous it is.
Here’s a PA Locum agency and sponsor of
@rcgp
conference casually patronising a consultant spinal surgeon who sits on the BMAs UK council with a helpful diagram to explain why it’s fair that physician’s assistants earn more than Doctors and Nurses.
Anyone else had enough yet?
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We must scrap hyper rotational training. If a selling point of a less qualified role is that they don't rotate. doctors dont want to rotate. We dont want to be treated like crap, move all the time...it must end. To not act is a crime
This is the issue. The PA is valued as a permanent member of staff by depts and senior doctors in comparison to the faceless 'very junior' doctor. We must scrap hyper-rotational medical training.
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Surely illegal? Can anyone with a legal brain answer as to why this is allowed? It’s basically stopping doctors from improving their lives. They are qualified for the role - we all know that so what’s the legal reasons?
What's the actual point of training to be a doctor now? I look on LinkedIn and find multiple PA jobs which are paid better than I would be as a Dr. I look at doing getting a PA qualification - those with medical degree aren't allowed to apply?!
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@NHS_HealthEdEng
Yes thanks for having the worst training programmes ever envisaged. You guys are known across the profession for being totally shit. Congratulations
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@Xeon4f145d96s1
how sad must you be to post shit like this when you are at work. Or sadder talking about work outside of work and wishing to be another profession.
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If this happens - I am not paying for the GMC I will simply quit and go somewhere else or do something else.
We worked too hard for this shit to happen. Patients deserve better.
Just being honest, I have worked with some of these and the quality of output is notably worse.
GMC Meeting - Council having questions put forward for creation of pathways for MAPs to "fast-track" into becoming medical practitioners. GMC need to "consider how to respond" to that.
Is it not the GMC's duty to protect the public?
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Surely, surely there are doctors willing to do this role. You know..doctors. Someone actually trained and required to do this as part of their job...across multiple specialities...
Joke
Physician Associates now assessing final year medical students.
Is this a sign of declining educational standards in medicine?
What impact will it have on the quality of doctors we produce?
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@G__Halliday
I did general surgery for interim F1, an F1 job and also did T&O - so total of 10 months surgery. I had 2 teaching sessions in total during this time and very little bedside teaching. The whole foundation programme is a fraud to ensure service provision and to keep wages down.
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This assessment is spot on.
You can do it badly & have no clue whatsoever that you are. Making it seem easy. Hence it’s not uncommon to see poor management - e.g. male coming in for abx for the umpteenth time that year - no investigations post dip.
A dunning Kruger melting pot.
@iDrSunny
PAs have been told they are highly skilled generalists (they are not as you really need a steady foundation to be a generalist and they don’t have that) and so believe that they can do GP work easily
GP is actually difficult to do well but so easy to do badly
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Did you pay £100k student fees on a 30% pay cut? Did you have training bottle necks? Did you lose training opportunities to less qualified roles who also get paid more than you? Didn’t think so.
At least a good chunk of your pension is final salary & not linked to pension age👍🏼
I have just cancelled my Direct Debit to the BMA. I cannot remain a member of an organisation that has such scant regard for patient care that they arrange simultaneous strikes by consultants and juniors. Totally in acceptable
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We must end rotational training in its current form. None of this shit woth PAs would happen if we were embedded in the team. No highly qualified professional would stand for it and no ladder pulling wankshaft of a consultant would get away with it either
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Appreciate the work the BMA Consultant committee has done but the redifinition of Spa and forcing of the NHS LTWF plan are deeply concerning. This is not a great deal (i hate to say it) and also shafting your doctors in training in the process. Disappointing
SPAs —> DCCs?
25% more work?
Delivery of NHS LTWF a contractual obligation to strong-arm consultants to supervise MAPs?
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@SteveBarclay
@TheBMA
@SkyNews
This cheap and pathetic attempt at gaslighting doctors will not work or break our resolve. You must put an actual FAIR AND REASONABLE offer on the table for things to change.
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This should not be radical to anyone. Unregulated roles are not acceptable in any healthcare system.
I am sick of bullshit. Call it for what it is. Medicine on the cheap by less qualified staff. We have had enough.
End rotational training & their trump card is kaput
We are clear: until there is clarity and material assurances about the role of MAPs, they should not be recruited in the NHS.
Read the full press statement following a vote of our UK Council.
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@royalhospital
@Xeon4f145d96s1
Just remember what he said “We need to make it not too comfortable for them”…if you think a reply message is going to cut it, you are wrong. You don’t even have the guts to put it on your twitter. This doesn’t stop here. Real change is needed. Why do you hate doctors so much?
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Inappropriate to have this role teaching students in my view
Also another example of another cushtie number for the MDT - there are many doctors who could and would do this role…
@AstonMedicine
awful idea
Thrashing
#MedicalStudent
Education
Why Pay £9,000 / year
@AstonMedicine
@unibirmingham
?
#PhysicianAssociate
“Teachers”
@NHSEnglandNMD
@UniversitiesUK
@RCPhysicians
@RCSnews
@rcgp
@RCPCHtweets
@RCollEM
@AoMRC
@gmcuk
@NHSEmployers
@BMAstudents
@TheBMA
@Dr_Done_
@HSJnews
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@Ian_3710
@SwanseabayNHS
I presume that your junior docs will have equivalent training and that whilst these clinics are taking place they won’t be doing ward monkey work, TTOs and re writing drug charts? Oh…of course they are. One day pulling the ladder up will change for actual training of doctors
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@OckhamHealth
@JamesCatton
@PApodcastUK
This is in very poor taste. Please consider taking this down.
More pay. Less responsibility. Less training. Less exams. There is no storm to weather and the concerns won’t go away.
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@RCPhysicians
You are supporting training bottle necks. You are supporting the lowering standards of training through MAPs. You are ignoring your members and putting patients at greater risk. You don’t ever address these concerns directly and your Pres continues to ignore concerns. Disgrace
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@bbchealth
@NickTriggle
this article is a total disgrace and one sided article. We will see who is back of the queue
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@gmcuk
Is this the best you could come up with in your MS teams meetings? You will have unregulated roles on a Doctor register. Deliberately blurring lines.
Doctors barely had a say but PAs, went hell for leather wanting it.
Re-open discussions or you got real issues forthcoming.
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@oliverdevine
And we all know what you are implying by “innovation” in this context. Completely agree - new docs stick together, win together.
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Is this ethical? It seems damn right outrageous
@gmcuk
how can you seriously think this is fair or representative?
30% of the respondents were MAPs who almost 100% will have been in favour of the GMC being their regulator as it’d play right into their illusions of legitimising themselves as some sort of pseudodoctors.
It’s also unsurprising that most actual doctors did not get this survey.
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@anonPA5
The sheer arrogance and satisfaction in knowing how doctors are getting screwed, pretty much sums it all up. Inspires me to strike hard and not engage with the likes of you going forward
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@lymi66
unregulated, not the role which was sold to AHPs, unsafe, being used to replace doctors. Overpaid. Taking training opportunities away and causing doctors in training to be stuck on wards...i could go on. It is not snobbery. It related to training, regulation, pay and pt safety.
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You bet they are trying desperately to fund some dubious research into finding positives though. We and the BMa need to be ready
There is NO EVIDENCE to show that PAs and AAs are safe.
There is NO EVIDENCE to show that PAs and AAs are cost-effective.
In fact, there is NO EVIDENCE to show any benefit at all from PAs or AAs.
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I can assure you - the recent news has been uncomfortable, scary and worrying for doctors alike...
It's been an uncomfortable, scary and worrying time for Physician Associates over the last few months.
But, let's not forget this immense achievement. After >20 years of campaigning for regulation we are finally getting it.
Thanks to all those that helped make this happen. 👏🏽
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@nandwics
Clinical pharmacist - I get - clear scope
Physio - I get - clear scope
Mental health nurses I get - clear scope
I refuse to see how a PA seeing undifferentiated pts is helpful when a GP with more experience and extensive training can & is doing the role. They aren’t even cheap!
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