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"If we replace Cody with The Rock, people will forget that Vince McMahon used to work here" exceeded my wildest expectations for logic.
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Kevin Owens has clearly become the guy Vince trusts to handle anything, following people like Tito Santana, Ted DiBiase, Sean Waltman and Chris Jericho. It's a great role to be in. He should be proud of tonight.
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Getting tired of the "too many guys from WWE" complaint. They had a monopoly for 20 years where most of the best wrestlers in the US were under contract to them. Any startup that wants top talent is going to have a ton of "ex-WWE" guys. I don't get that complaint at all.
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First, Dan Lambert complains about the lack of serious wrestlers in AEW and they sign Bryan Danielson. Next, Dan Lambert complains about awful Cody and Brandi are and they leave AEW. What will be the next object of his ire?
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Was reading some old WONs and learned that these exchanges were so wild that the locker room legitimately thought the match got out of hand.
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Road Dogg is also on record saying he never understood Bret Hart. He also doesn't really understand multi-syllable words or the function of doors.
WWE's Senior Vice President of Live Events, Road Dogg says he doesn't understand Orange Cassidy, and he also never understood CM Punk:
“Everybody loved CM Punk too. I never got it. Never understood it. Cuts a decent promo. Good, in today’s world. Never got the rest of it. Let’s
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Do people who criticize Jim Ross over calling him Jack Perry realize he can't be Jungle Boy 5 years from now when he's pushing 30? They are setting him up for the future.
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They are taking suggestions for more uploads in the comments. If you care about the future of the planet, use every alt imaginable to request more Omni and Greensboro Coliseum shows. People are responding with stuff like "Rock's best moments" and they are horrible and a threat.
WWE have just uploaded Takeshi Morishima's tryout matches... What?!?!
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Ricky Morton could make teenage girls cry because they felt so bad for him that he couldn't get his hot tag.
When it comes to selling... these three are the standard.
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Bryan Danielson's debut should be that he shows up and chokes Justin Roberts with his tie, and Tony Khan hires him in return.
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You mean to tell me we finally get Adam Cole wrestling for the championship in the main event, Regal getting the pop of his life and Jericho submitting in the opener, and HHH doesn't even get to be the one to book it all?
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There is an entire pro wrestling religion around the idealized casual fan. It's similar to how politicians talk about white factory workers in the Midwest.
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Yes, this is an inside reference, but inside references are fine when understanding the angle doesn't require knowing the reference. Getting gift cards and breakroom snacks instead of better wages and working conditions is a common labor complaint, so this is great heel material.
Young Bucks gave Tony Schiavone a $25 Amazon Gift Card as an apology. 😭
If you know, you know. LOOOOOOOL.
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Tired: HHH now has full control of WWE.
Wired: Paul Heyman has only has one more person to get rid of before he controls WWE.
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When I run VICE, we will get a documentary on the time the WWF tried to invade Memphis with Hulk Hogan and only drew 1200 fans, and then Jerry Jarrett did Lawler & Idol vs Road Warriors the next day and put 11,300 fans in Mid South Coliseum.
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All wrestling shows should take place in this building.
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Greg Valentine is probably a top 50 wrestler of all time, but when he gets brought up, people often think it's ironic or something and start making jokes about him taking forever to get warmed up. No really, he's an all-time great.
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AEW is not perfect, but one thing they seem to be very serious about is building stars for the future. Both Punk and Danielson have decisively lost within their first few months of debuting. Not what I would have expected, but I'll give them credit for taking the risks.
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I know TV time is limited, but this should really be elimination rules so Jarrett can pin all 3. He needs to go into Wembley strong since he'll be carrying the show.
This Wednesday, 8/2
#AEWDynamite
200
Tampa, FL
Live on TBS, 8pm ET/7pm CT
@KennyOmegamanX
/
@youngbucks
vs
@RealJeffJarrett
/
@TheLethalJay
/
@hellosatnam
3
@AEW
originals,
#TheElite
Kenny Omega & Young Bucks battle the rule-bending trio Jarrett, Lethal, & Satnam at Dynamite 200!
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I don't think Tony Khan is enabling anything and I don't have any comment on Jeff, but there is a pattern emerging of AEW simply refusing to talk about anything at all that isn't related to how great their shows are and a reporter will have to call them out on it eventually.
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Yes, and that's good.
Do AEW broadcasts feel darker than WWE? Maybe its the ring ropes or the cameras?
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I'm reminded why I was always more of a WCW fan and why I will probably always lean more toward AEW. I'd much rather take on the turmoil and messiness for the great stuff than watch a competent show that doesn't do much wrong but doesn't really swing for the fences either.
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That whole transition from Danhausen to HOOK to the angle was flawless. Felt like old TV wrestling.
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I'd call a hugely memorable show with many classic matches in front of a sellout crowd that did the greatest retirement in US wrestling history, and one where fans made very clear who they want to be the next major star in AEW, a home run.
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I wouldn't have Jack Perry come back as The Devil. I'd have him say he's been traveling the world defending his championship.
Tony Schiavone: "What championship?"
And out comes the title with the spray-painted X.
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On WOR, Dave revealed some AEW stats that will quite possibly blow up this site:
- Most weeks, youngest-skewing sports audience on TV (either AEW, intl soccer or NBA)
- Median income of viewers is ~20% higher than WWE viewers
- Much higher percentage of college-educated fans
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The Peacock documentary that's coming. In the end, WWE will be the ones who make the first profit from the events of Brawl Out.
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Woke up to people arguing that AEW is a failure because they can't get 1m viewers and accusing Dave of being on their payroll. It's comforting. Slowly but surely we're returning to normal.
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I have a general theory that you can only present someone as a young future star eating losses to bigger stars for about 18 months, maybe stretched to two years, before the future never comes and chasing an imaginary future in itself becomes the gimmick.
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No better wrestling litmus test than opinions on Eddie Kingston. If you don't get it ... you don't get it.
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A good time to remind everyone that not only is Hulk Hogan personally a scumbag, but that his character was the one in the wrong in quite a few storylines.
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It's been so long since I watched this much WWE. A little surprised they aren't calling the refs "Contest Administrators" by now.
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Terry Funk lived more lives as more people than anyone in wrestling history. The younger brother. The NWA World Champion. The biggest babyface in Japan. The guy facing Hogan on SNME. Ric Flair's greatest rival in his greatest year. The "middle aged and crazy" brawler. And more!
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I don't begrudge anyone who sees this boring as much as I feel for them. This is the opposite of boring. A curious mind might wonder how they were able to so effectively get a crowd so hot by doing a fraction of the stuff that happens in matches today and try to learn from it.
They're so fucking boring and you've never actually seen one.
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If there's one thing Eric Bischoff would never do, it's give talent disproportionate power over the direction of the company or allow them to get jobs for their friends.
.
@EBischoff
dropping some truth bombs on the latest 83 Weeks:
"Who the f–k is Ace Steel anyway?"
"Just because he's a confidant of CM Punk's? Why is he allowed to jeopardize the network premiere of a brand-new show? Are you f—ing kidding me? People say I'm just being negative
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I've grown to hate the word "storytelling" because it implies that good wrestling has deep characters with rich backstories and it doesn't. The best "stories" are (1) I hate you and want to hurt you and (2) you have something I want and I'm going to take it.
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On this day, we remember the time Tim Horner suggested increasing ratings for Smoky Mountain Wrestling by going to local electronic stores and turning all the TVs to SMW.
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What opinions about AEW don't illicit this reaction?
What’s an opinion about AEW that will have you like this?
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This is not only wrong, but insulting to generations of wrestlers and promoters. Jim Londos was headlining baseball stadiums and getting NYT write-ups during the Great Depression, as just one example.
HHH making Pop so proud.
Wrestling was now "a tiny little thing happening in bars" before Vince got ahold of it.
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Mae Young vs Stacy in 1999 Memphis Power Pro shows that Mae Young was incredible. She was billed as Sean Stasiak's mother and here she is getting the studio crowd worked into a frenzy and issuing a challenge for later in the show.
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WWE propaganda has pushed the message that high salaries cause death and destruction for at least 20 years. This company once said on TV that WCW went out of business because they paid Bret Hart too much money.
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1. I think it was clear this was going to happen.
2. The issue is that half of the people open to an alternative wanted PWG on national TV, and half wanted a revival of Jim Crockett Promotions.
Dave Meltzer on the negativity towards AEW and anti-AEW culture since the company's debut in 2019:
"I think the one thing that I was really surprised about that I did not see coming was the amount of negativity from fans and others to the success. And the wishes of failure. And
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Wrestling's most preeminent historian telling people that old wrestling sucks remains the most baffling thing.
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I am almost certain that's a pre-wrestling career Sherri Martel!
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The reason for the difference is because there's an understanding that in WWE that consent is irrelevant, and that these lines are designed to humiliate people for personal amusement. AEW hasn't created reason for people to assume the worst at this point.
I'm not one of those "but if WWE did it" guys, or Vice versa. But honestly, if those Christian promos aired on WWE TV weeks in a row, as well as Chris Jericho mocking Eddie Kingston's mental illness, I feel like there would be more backlash
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I've always wondered why Vince McMahon winning the WWF title in 1999 is not remembered as equally bad. Can someone explain?
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He's a guy who has covered wrestling for 40 years and who has shaped our entire understanding of its history of it, and all anyone ever wants to ask him about is his alleged bias toward AEW and his dumb star ratings.
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A fresh take on WCW would be to focus on its rise. Somehow their failures have been copied over and over but their successes have rarely been attempted again.
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A fascinating thing about the history of New Japan Pro Wrestling is that Inoki's embezzlement put them on the brink of self destruction pretty much every single year from 1985-1988. Then they'd have one great idea or pickup & next year or so would be fine. Constant tightrope.
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After listening to WOR, I realize that the problem is not the rankings existing but them being overanalyzed to death. They are a soft indicator of who's being pushed because Tony grew up on the WCW Top 10. Stop treating it like an objective science project. Relax!
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Story IS everything in wrestling. But it doesn't have to have 30-40 minute talking segments with everyone involved sounding more like a fictional character than a real person. Believing that to be the only way is the failing of the 20-year monopoly, not story itself.
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Amused at obsession with Kurt Angle never having a five-star match. Notice how rare it is that anyone points to a specific one that he should have gotten and didn't. It's all this idea that he "deserved" one as a lifetime achievement award.
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The source of most booking challenges in AEW is that you can protect 3-4 top stars, but protecting 25-30 top stars is close to impossible. There is no midcard in AEW, no path to the main event. There are the stars and the people who do nothing but lose to them every week.
I will never understand why AEW didn't do more with Takeshita after he beat Kenny Omega at All Out. That was a big deal and it didn't lead to anything. I also was on board for his turn initially but they may have missed out what originally made him popular with the AEW crowd.
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It won't be news to longtime fans, but if you've never seen Sting vs Vader at Great American Bash '92, Starrcade '92 and SuperBrawl III, I very strongly encourage you to rectify immediately.
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Dave has told the story in the WON of Akira Hokuto and Kensuke Sasaki having sex at least 37 times.
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Not afraid to criticize AEW when it's fair, but this is just not true. MJF, Swerve, Darby, The Acclaimed (who have cooled off but were made in AEW), Willow, Toni Storm, Jamie Hayter. FTR became bigger stars in AEW than they were in WWE. Probably more.
Some shit just cringeworthy…it ain’t even gotta be deep I guess
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Kobashi is a pet dog. Kawada is a pet cat.
It’s funny how Kobashi always looks like he’s having the best day of his life and Kawada always looks like he just had a death in the family.
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Tony is shamelessly doing this for publicity AND it's tacky to use it as a wrestling war football AND his point is correct AND the AEW house isn't spotless either AND pretending simply moving on from Vince is enough to reform the cultural rot in WWE is naive.
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I’ve said this before but if you REALLY think Dave has it out for WWE, listen to WOR any Tuesday morning, where Bryan throws dozens of complaints about WWE at Dave and he just shrugs them off as unimportant or disagrees. Every week for years and years.
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Dave's Twitter could be the coolest thing on this site if people asked him interesting questions and if he prioritized answering those over nonsense.
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Some food for thought for the "every match should have a story" crowd is that in classic wrestling, you would use the matches that were just matches as a way to establish the norm. In other words, this is what we're here to do at our core: be a wrestling company.
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Dave recently said AEW isn't that hot right now because if they were, they'd hit 8K in Boston. (The lesson being they are not on fire like WWE, but they are still doing great.)
AEW Dynamite: Blood & Guts
Wed • Jul 19 • 7:30 PM
TD Garden, Boston, MA
Available Tickets => 1,267
Current Setup => 9,418
Tickets Distributed => 8,151
3 new upper decks just added.
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If I was a wrestler doing way more stuff than Gunther, I'd work on understanding why he gets a bigger reaction and has better matches than me doing less things, and try to learn from it.
We need to talk about how limited this mans moveset is.
- 35 chops a match
- 15 suplexes
- 3 powerslams
Rest of the match is carried by the opponent.
Jobber? Chopper? Chopther.
I speak for everybody when I say he needs to go back to NXT and develop a moveset.
#WWERaw
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More than breaking news, I think the bigger loss will be framing it. This is Dave talking about WWE not retreating on Reigns after the Daniel Bryan stuff in 2015. THIS is what we'll lose.
When Meltzer calls it a day, the wrestling media landscape is fucked. Granted, 70% of it dies immediately because it's mostly reposting Observer news, but the point still remains.
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AEW exists. They have a different wrestling mentality than WWE. This is a good thing. There are things they do very well & things they could do better. WWE is the market leader better connecting with fans right now. Pointing that out does not mean you owned someone.
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If you weren't around in 1996, you seriously have no idea. As bad as you think the Macarena craze was, it was much worse, I promise.
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40 years ago, a few fans came up with a narrow but still generally useful idea to say in shorthand how good or great a match is if you're on a tape budget and the very idea somehow destroyed pro wrestling.
“A lot of Japanese matches get 5 star ratings from people that really don’t matter.”
- AJ Styles
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A classic match drew a disappointing rating. Wasn't the first time something like that has happened and won't be the last. Best advice I can give people is not to look at ratings or other business metrics to validate their opinions on what is good or bad about wrestling.
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I think I've uncovered about 200-250 matches from the 1950s & 60s that aren't in circulation. I'm comfortable putting them on YouTube, so look for uploads to start later today. I'll keep this going as a thread and link to them as they're up.
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It also feels disingenuous to simultaneously criticize them for pushing too many "WWE guys" while at the same time leading the "Who is that and why would casual fans care?" complaint every time they push someone who isn't.
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Welcome to 2024, where apparently associating WWE with Vince McMahon is unfair and dishonest.
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I love that AEW understands booking Bryan Danielson is the easiest thing in the world. He should just be perpetually wrestling. WWE did this for a while in 2013 too, and it's when he peaked.
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The WWE model for the last 40 years has not been to reward fan investment. That some fan investment has been rewarded is purely incidental. The goal has always been to entice people who don't like wrestling to have passing interest. Understand that, understand everything.
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There are two types of wrestling fans: those who at some point have watched an entire PPV on scramblevision, and those you can't trust.
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NYT: We wanted to know if the WON awards are biased. So we sat down at an Ohio diner with three people who run anti-AEW accounts.
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Jeff Hardy, no statement. Jake Atlas, no statement. MJF, no statement. Most of the injuries also haven't been confirmed. Basically, unless you want to talk about how great the last PPV is, they have nothing at all to say.
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Hager being undefeated in MMA and oft-defeated in professional wrestling is whatever the opposite of Inokism is. Outokism?
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Dear January 1, 2021 fans: By the end of the year, Kenny Omega will need time off to treat some serious injuries. Not to worry, he'll be replaced by Daniel Bryan as AEW's top heel.
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If you could build a company around any four wrestlers in their prime who would it be?
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Samoa Joe talks and carries himself like a World Champion instead of someone trying really hard to talk and carry themselves like a World Champion.
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We never found out what they discovered when "looked into" it.
WWE ‘looking into’ allegations of past inappropriate behavior from Randy Orton
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The realization that Eddie Kingston's peers and old foes no longer look down on him is a huge turning point in his story. Their doing so is a big part of what made Eddie ... Eddie, but he clawed his way to their respect. What next? Great stuff.
EXCLUSIVE:
#AEW
Continental Crown Champion Eddie Kingston and Bryan Danielson share what tonight's match at
#AEWRevolution
meant to them both
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Happy to explain! Wear jeans, but not nice ones, a t-shirt with sleeves cut off, a bandana around your head or neck and maybe cowboy boots. Have a bag of powder in your pocket you can throw at them. Take off your bandana & choke one of them with it at some point. Hmm, what else?
can someone please tell me what a bunkhouse brawl is before saturday
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Wow. RIP to Kevin Sullivan, the best demonic act in the history of pro wrestling to a ridiculous degree. He was also the wrestling mind that made the bigger idea of the NWO work by covering all the details. So many great contributions to pro wrestling.
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WWE spent so many years mocking anyone who actually likes wrestling as a virgin who lives in their parents' basement that a lot of people now think this sort of contempt is nature.
The main takeaway I'm getting from the conversations formed from this Khan/Cagematch line is that wrestling fans have a depressingly-low (like really low, unnecessarily hateful) opinion of each other, to the point that it almost becomes a self-own.
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I'd call the hotter take that the culture of pro wrestling has changed in a way that War Games can never be what it was again, at least not in a glossy and hyper-produced national company, and probably should have stayed on the shelf.
Not sure if this is a HOT TAKE.
But the WarGames match should always be an elimination match.
It feels anticlimactic for it to take so long for every entrant, simply for one pinfall to determine a winner 🤷♂️
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I thought the final segment on Dynamite was fascinating for a lot of reasons. Adam Copeland was so entrenched in WWE that he had a company-specific origin story there (WM6). Now we find out he and Christian were Crockett fans who wanted to be Sting and Luger?
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These imaginary wrestlers I've made up in my head who think they only need "workrate" (a nebulously defined term that I weaponize as a boring contrarian) to get over are terribly misguided. I believe I am a rebel who tells hard truths even though there are hundreds of me.
I think that the Acclaimed and MJF prove that even in AEW, personality and charisma trumps workrate. To really make it at the top level, you've got to connect with the fans
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When people say they want "more stories", do they mean more wrestling angles, more promos and more feuds, or do they mean more cinema and skits, more acting and more melodramatic facial expressions? I can never tell if these things are interchangeable in people's minds or not.
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