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Islamicate history is cool
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Arab-Ottoman-Turk: The Ottoman Empire’s Culture War for the Heart of Ottomanism 🧵
All excerpts from Losing Istanbul: Arab-Ottoman Imperialists and the End of Empire by Mostafa Minawi.
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Everyone should read Saladin: The Triumph of the Sunni Revival by A.R. Azzam.
How learning institutions (madrasa) can be founded and spread so rapidly in the span of a few decades, it’s truly a spectacular phenomenon.
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For the love of God stop falling into this bait - we’re literally moving towards a transhumanist hell
Human progress, the shared objective of scientific discovery, bogus modernist garbage. There is no big pot of science that everyone must contribute towards to prove their worth.
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Cry about it Marjin, the fed legions of murtads all over the socials since Oct 7th has only affirmed our Sacred Law - civilizational enemies who seek the destruction of their former tribe
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This was harder than I thought. Not the most well rounded list but I will update it over time as I encounter more.
The list, chronologically:
- War Songs: ‘Antarah Ibn Shaddad
- Violent Order: Religious Warfare, Chivalry, and the Ayyar Phenomenon in the Medieval Islamic World
I’m putting together a chronological reading list of Islamicate soldier/war accounts. Personal diaries, journals, letters, etc.
I’ve put together a few works so far ranging from the crusades to WW1, but I need more. If anyone’s aware of any please let me know!
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@Knightly_H
Usama Ibn Munqidh comes to mind, a Syrian faris aristocrat who had some knight friends he’d regularly visit in Jerusalem and around. Wrote about some funny instances with them which is wholesome.
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On the Armenian Genocide and the Ottoman Empire:
Yes, it happened. There's absolutely no reason to deny it and propagate Kemalist revisionist history.
This is a (rough) translation of Mehmed Cavit Bey's moving diary, former Minister of Finance of the OE, on the genocide🧵(1/18)
Cavit Bey 1915 Eylül'ünde günlüğüne Ermeni "tehcir"ine dair böyle yazmış. Okuyalım.
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Islamic miniature baby!! First time I see one depicted, he’s so cute
“When I stand to lead the prayer I always want to lengthen it, but then I hear the cries of a child so I shorten the prayer because I hate to make the mother feel distressed.”
— Hadith of the Prophet ﷺ
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I think this is the first time someone’s ever blocked me, kinda rude but it feels great!
When their incompetence and lack of knowledge or intellectual integrity is displayed, they block you.
Yet they wish to say that they are free thinkers.
Hopefully Pakistani youth can see that they are nothing more than blind followers, incapable of thinking for themselves.
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Yesterday I discovered the charming Turco-phile Italian village of Moena. 🧵
The story goes that a wounded janissary partaking in the Siege of Vienna limped his way to the village, escaping the battlefield. The villagers of Moena take him in and nurse him back to health.
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I’m putting together a chronological reading list of Islamicate soldier/war accounts. Personal diaries, journals, letters, etc.
I’ve put together a few works so far ranging from the crusades to WW1, but I need more. If anyone’s aware of any please let me know!
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For the love of God, I beg you someone please bring this back. Inscribe and brand the barakah onto your person (literally)!
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The Abbasid loyalist when you ask them what their “authentic” caliphate and gang of dynasts have been doing for the past 500+ years
Anyway everyone should read Caliphate Redefined. Verily, Ottoman ‘Caliphology’ was the perfected form of the Prophet’s three successorships!
The Khilafah ended in the year 1517 and not 1924.
This is not opinion but cold hard fact.
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Ottoman officer-led discipline combined with Japanese suicidal morale - the most stubborn fighting force the world would lay eyes on
Japan should’ve converted to Islam smh
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This is what it’s come to? The fall of the Well-Protected Domains brought about by potato?
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Despite financial trouble, the Abdulhamidian Ottoman Empire was adamant to not borrow any European loan or human resources to construct the Hejaz railway & telegraph lines. The Hejaz lines symbolized a global Muslim effort, built and funded by Muslim hands:
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It’s called Silat, a Southeast Asian martial arts, and it’s really cool they kick butt
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There is absolutely no differentiation, at any given time, between the Israeli military and the Israeli civil. The entirety of these lunatics are average joes who will return to comfortable civilian life after their mass murder retreats. Man or woman, none of them are innocent.
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Everyone read this
Probably the coolest dynamic ever
The book "Studies on Ottoman Southeast Asian Relations" is now available digitally in English and also in Turkish
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The Ottoman Empire “worked” for 600 years, what are you saying?
Multiethnic heterogeneity is the default coexistence of mankind
Multiethnic societies don't even work when people are relatively similar in culture and appearance.
Consider Yugoslavia, India or the Ottoman Empire.
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Smh we had this it was called the Hejaz railway and the Berlin-Baghdad railway.
NEW: Turkey, Iraq, Qatar and UAE sign transportation deal that hopes to connect Gulf to Europe
• Rival to US/Israel-backed India - Middle East Corridor (IMEC)
• Erdogan also signed 26 agreements with Iraq today.
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Latakia-Hatay border
طبقت السماء على الأرض
Or I’m bad at photography
I was evidently not the best photographer back then, but here goes.
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Many are surprised to learn the Independence War was fuelled by the motivation of Jihad, even Ataturk appealed to it in his leadership.
For the average soldier, most of whom Ottoman veterans, saw the war as a continuation of WW1, the lines between the two were extremely blurry.
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A three-way synthesis between Ottoman, Safavid, and Mughal universalist Sacred Kingship is the way forward but unnecessary groupism has a strong hold.
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Book review!! 7/10?
Extremely short and very easy to read. Love the mizan/balance thesis, but it’s clear Keeler isn’t a historian.
A great primer to critique of modernity and a systematic approach to Islamicate civ.
Could use a lot more work as a comparative historical study.
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"Enver Pasha, why are you bleeding out in Central Asia?"
"You see Tucker, 7000 years ago there was a steppe boy. Everyone he knew and loved were wiped out by tyrant city dwellers who despised the free spirited nomad, that was until he met her... the she-wolf of his dreams..."
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It seems that St. George and al-Khidr may have had a shared persona in Levantine folk-beliefs. Although it may have been a particularly Druze invocation that was later adopted by others, but I'm not sure.
"St. George/al-Khidr slaying a dragon near Beirut" sounds too cool
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Reading on the collapse of a highly possible federated Ottomanist Empire-state:
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- Ibn Fadlān and the Land of Darkness: Arab Travellers in the North
- The Book of Contemplation of Usama Ibn Munqidh
- Chronicles of the Crusades
- Memoirs of a Janissary
- Osman of Timișoara: Prisoner of the Infidels
- An Ottoman Traveller: Book of Travels of Evliya Çelebi
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It doesn’t really matter if the point of the story is a tragic tale of messianism, appropriate everything to Islamicate benefits until the establishment of the necessary infrastructure to propagate beliefs.
يحيى الشهداء
Dune 2 has radicalized more people than the left ever has or will
UNLIMITED JIHAD ON THE FIRST WORLD
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Which way Ottoman man?
The Tanzimati: Ottoman Turkish, French, German, ethnic Balkan language or Arabic
The trad Tulip Era 'alim: Ottoman Turkish, Arabic, Persian, Hindustani?
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On the term 'Islamicate':
Not merely a fancy iteration of Islamic, but is rather differentiated from it. A useful term that speaks of the collective experience of all, whether past, present, or future, for which said experience would not exist were it not for the Holy Prophet.
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It’ll always and forever be really funny that a few enthusiast readers are able to take on a literal “professor’s” horrendous takes on the internet
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We win again fellow Ottomanist brave souls of the Memalik-e Mehruse, aman aman!
But jokes aside absolutely unfortunate (totally)
I wish SafavidLARP was a bit more refined. OttomanLARPers have like a whole field in academia while most Safavid guys are just Shah Ismail fanboys. Nobody talks about the buildings or the economy or the bureaucracy or anything from the actually interesting post Ismail period.
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The sultanic-executive shifting from the Arab to the Turk doesn’t matter, it was the Arab administrations which integrated the Turkic elements, specifically into the military.
The Arabs retained significant control over the communal-judiciary, where actual self rule resides.
The Arab leadership of the Islamicate only lasted for the first 400 years.
For the rest of the 1,000 years it was mostly non-Arabs who ruled and led the Muslims.
It was as if Allah said: ok, you lot were never meant to rule, it was just a one off miracle. Now go back to sleep.
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Normalise Saladin the diplomat, he’s cooler than Saladin the general.
Saladin’s greatest move was taking over the Fatimid Caliphate, bloodless and endorsed.
Imagine a non-Iranian Sunni today gaining the complete trust of Iranian authority that they just let him have the country
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Islamicate appropriation, the golden touch. Why isn’t this done anymore?
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Konstantinniye, then now and forever!
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Iran-Iraq War as the Islamicate forgotten war. Millions dead, brutal WW1 déjà-vu with modern military armaments, chems, ideological standoff, ethnic conflict, 8 years, war driven social engineering, child soldiers
Legacy: nationalists arguing over who ‘won’, a total spirit drain
It seems that all of Iran’s revolutionary spirit has been wasted on the Iraq war and withered by the rise of zoomer urbanites
Who looks at Iran now and sees a hotbed tide of revolutionary fervor anymore?
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So basically the religious-spiritual landscape the Islamicate peasant lived in looked like the combined peak world-building of Morrowind and The Witcher.
And this will not be elaborated on, not today anyway.
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This is fine and super good actually
Btw shortly after they were content with simply putting all the brothers in house arrest while the women took care of everything, truly peak Ottoman statesmanship imho
I knew the Ottomans practiced fratricide (killing the Sultan’s brothers to avoid rivalry) but I didn’t know it was codified with a Fatwa and encouraged to the extent that a father would tell his sons to kill each other.
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I was pleasantly surprised with how widespread and cherished the humanities are in Iran. I get the idea that STEM is the ‘female oriented’ field while humanities (including religious sciences) appeal more to males - a complete switch from the US.
Iran is run by humanities PhDs.
Neighboring countries are run by illiterate military men.
Which do you prefer?
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Historically speaking, sainthood, shrines and istighatha were part and parcel of the majority of the early modern Islamicate. As in, literally everyone affirmed partook in the cult of Saints.
This isn’t a distanced theology only present in ulema books, it was a lived reality.
Definitely trying to stay out of theological contentions as much as possible but in light of the istighatha debates, I don’t think it’s understood the vast amount of people you are condemning to shirk through Muslim history. In a way it’s extremely depressing if that were true.
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@AlwadayHussein
@loulou801
@UssamaMakdisi
The rise of homogenous nation states forced all the diverse nations of the OE into massacres and deportations or cultural assimilation from the Balkans down to Armenia and Syria/Iraq.
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Sentiments of a "purified Turkish" free of Arabic and Persian preceded Ataturk. Here it is being promoted in Turkish newspapers as a tool of centralization of the Empire.
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It wasn’t an “inability”, the Ottomans never sought to integrate others (Turks included) into a common Ottoman identity, it was reserved for the elite.
Ottoman experience with citizenship known as Ottomanism was a short lived anomaly in its history. Discussion in pinned thread.
@seld_on
The inability of the Ottomans to integrate all the disparate people of Anatolia into a coherent polity even after hundreds of years is why they resorted to genocide and mass expulsions to secure Anatolia as a Turkish state.
They continue to struggle with Kurdish separatism.
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Am I the only one fascinated with Islamicate manuscript depictions of people?
Maybe it’s the attire, but even their faces and demeanors look so alien to us, despite our shared ancestry.
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Late Ottoman memoirs and accounts:
- Losing Istanbul: Arab-Ottoman Imperialists and the End of Empire
- Istanbul and the formation of an Arab teenager’s identity
- The Ottoman Twilight in the Arab Lands: Turkish Memoirs and - Testimonies of the Great War
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In medieval political history, legitimacy-garnering is everywhere. From the waqf to the madrasa to literal legitimacy caliphal robes. Dynasties came and went so frequently.
The Ottomans permanently solved the issue of legitimacy, making themselves its locus, 600+ years of rule.
The right to rule is unquestioned now, but legitimacy was the most important resource for governance throughout Islamicate history.
Commoners and Emirs alike demanded the Sultanic-Executive to constantly prove worthy. Fail to do so, revolts and civil wars rage across the land.
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Principally I refuse to bite, but I am strategically biting here.
The horrendous dissociation of Sufism from Islam aside, Sufi groups were known for being the most militant and militarily active.
Apart from Turkey, the most successful anti-colonial resistance came from Sufis.
A Muslim integration from Islam to Sufism is needed.
Sufism is the counterforce to political Islam, the peaceful and moderate alternative.
Sufism is not concerned with conquering the "external world", but rather mastering the inner world. A gift to the world.
Sufism is not
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Travel the past, know the Islamicate conscious, imbibe it within, then seize the moment
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Whatever you do, do NOT let modern Turkey monopolise Ottoman heritage, do NOT:
-Deny the Armenian genocide
-Propagate racist Arab stereotypes (traitors)
-Assume Ottoman can only be Turkish
-Affirm Turkey as the “inheritor” of the OE
-Hate Kurds
-and other nationalist narratives
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Mughal stuff particularly:
- The Baburnama: Memoirs of Babur, Prince and Emperor
- Memoirs of the Emperor Jahangueir: Tuzk-e-Jahangiri
- A Memoir of the Mughal Empire (Events of 1757-1761)
- Nostalgia, Lahore, and the Ghost of Aurangzeb
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This is equally as bad as the thread it’s refuting.
Summary: Palestine wasn’t lost to conspiratorial betrayal, it was lost in aftermath
1. No, KSA isn’t a Zionist-British psy-op
2. Sharif of Mecca wasn’t leading a Sufi order akin to the Libyan Sennusis, why the Sufi moniker?
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Definitely trying to stay out of theological contentions as much as possible but in light of the istighatha debates, I don’t think it’s understood the vast amount of people you are condemning to shirk through Muslim history. In a way it’s extremely depressing if that were true.
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All of you need to read history, niche social history at best, NOW
Im seeing a massive influx of MT brothers obsessed with everything-philosophy, which I get is an intellectually stimulating subject, but these brothers should place their efforts first into a solid understanding of the foundations of Ulum Shariyya.
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One way to look at the Islamicate historical experience - a dynamic of the down-to-earth pragmatically unruly commoners and the mature motherly figure of the scholarly class looking out for their dumbo children.
It’s pretty cute in a way.
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Spot on, but I feel that it’s not the biggest deal to have a group of people that only peddle these critiques. Kinda serve an awareness purpose and have their place. Many people still aren’t aware of this discourse.
Just don’t want Hallaq turning into a meme-pariah due to it lol
It’s great and all that people are reading Hallaq and trying to become a part of the contemporary intellectual circle, but one has to understand that after one point critiques—obsessive ones in particular—reflect only an inferiority complex and gives in to modernity’s claims.
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Dark souls new location discovered screen: **BLOCK OBTAINED**
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@omar_gddd
Even millets aren’t the exclusivist enclaves they are made out to be.
Islamicate multiethnic societies had deeply complex relationships with the ruling governance.
Nation-states on the other hand can’t tolerate pluralism, unlike Empire, citizenship demands homogeneity.
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Ottomanism wasn't only a means to provide uniform goals and identities, it was a symbolic transition out of ignorant petty loyalties to the sophisticated vision of Ottoman imperial ideology
A more detailed account:
Libyan recruits join the Ottoman Army, Ottomanist transformation.
Recounted by Sadik, Arab-Ottoman military diplomat
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The undervalued and dismal state of Islamicate history among Muslims is unfortunate. If it’s not peddling nation-state mythos, it’s viciously defending old orientalist narratives that have been debunked decades ago in modern academia:
-Golden Age
-ottoman decline
-Ghazi thesis
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A little while ago there was this German philosophy type on here, he was talking about the “civilized” violence of modern warfare compared to the “barbarian” sword & spear.
Rafah is what’s “civilized” for these maniacs. This is exactly what these people defend and advocate for.
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Everyone check my pinned thread it’s all about this (multiethnic Ottomanism vs Turkish Ottomanism which just evolved into Turkish nationalism).
We were all robbed!
Christian territorial encroachment on Ottoman Empire led to its remnants becoming increasingly dominated by Moslems. The previously cosmopolitan Ottoman concept of identity evolved to an identity based on inclusive ethnic Turkishness (non-Turks could identify as Turks) & Islam.
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Remember everyone, there was no ‘Arab nationalist’ revolt. Everything is one big amnesia of revision and nation-state founding mythos.
The history of the flag of Palestine is interesting. It was from the Arab nationalist revolt in 1916 the rebelled against the Islamic Ottoman Empire.
I see a lot of irony in the current tension. I’m no expert at this and I mean no disrespect, but isn’t it ironic that the
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One of my dreams is to dig through Turkish historical curriculums and see what they put together.
Read history, gentlemen!
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The advocacy of a "pure Turkish" everyone had to learn contradicted the notions of Ottomanism.
Nonetheless the CUP would continue to push Turkish language supremacy despite warnings to the administrative catastrophe it would cause.
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@reptileman257
Not necessarily related to fiqh. The basic idea is that these people partake in irreligious (or “secular”) endeavours that enhance the Islamic ‘whole’ so to speak, even if it is subconscious in the overall scheme of things.
Kinda weird to explain, Sherman's book is all about it!
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This image has never been so relevant - Things are happening things always happen
Has Israel noticed it's now locked between a hostile Egypt-Turkey-Iran nexus w/ everyone that'll side w/ those lol what a disastrous foreign & national security policy honestly ok I get Iran, but Egypt & Co who are now in an entente w/ Turks plus Iran is a bit much sooo ??
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- An Ordinary Ottoman Soldier's Diary: The Gallipoli Front of World War I
- Year of the Locust: A Soldier's Diary and the Erasure of Palestine's Ottoman Past
- Said Nursi’s works mentions his experience in the Caucasus front here and there
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This made me physically uncomfortable. I despise AI, save me Anna’s Archive.
All of this is wrong btw :)
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Egyptians should parade the caskets of each martyred soldier in the streets of Cairo, Palestinian and Egyptian flags adorning their resting chamber. All the meanwhile calling for war, if the tens of thousands of martyred Palestinians won’t illicit action, let these deaths do so!
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There was an independent paramilitary order around the Abbasid period. Formed of hadith-traditionist ascetic warrior-scholars who travelled Islamicate frontiers seeking knowledge and warfare. Coolest lifestyle ever. They also really hated government. They were called Mutatawwi’a
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Sorry if this is a little rambly;
It’s unfortunate history is so neglected amongst Muslim audiences. Many would prefer to delve depths irrelevant theological polemics which rarely serve real practical purposes. Not that it’s a useless endeavor, but it’s extremely oversaturated.
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Not all of these are strict memoirs and primary accounts, some are academic books discussing those accounts in varying detail, but nonetheless should provide a fun read!
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Post-Ottoman collapse, headless warring statelets era bringing ruin and selling away Islamicate sovereignty. A time of great confusion and amnesia in the collective conscious
This is how history should be written once this nightmare is over, horrifying epoch for new myth-making
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Vain Catholic attempt, when all is lost just spread misinformation!
Keep your conceptions of ‘homosexuality’ to your pity selves
Did you know the first country in the world to legalize homosexuality was…….. (drum roll please)…….
The Ottoman Empire?
No that’s not a joke, if was a common practice for Ottoman aristocrats to kidnap and rape Greek boys
“Based and Trad” Islam at it again
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Safia Latif, Sana Saeed, Naoki Yamamoto, Johnathon Brown, et al. These luminaries are the Islamic Secular.
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Turkish-Ottoman literary figures and Arabic newspapers fiercely opposed this "purification" of Turkish.
Note how the cultural engagement and conversation raging throughout the Empire? It's a beautiful thing to see.
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Mongol-Timurid yassa law and sacred kingship strikes yet again
While this is true, the Muslim world experienced a similar crisis in the 14th century. Steppe nomadic political theory, at odds with historic Darul Islam, became dominant & scholarship had to find a way to work it into an Islamic framework.
The need of the hour today is similar.
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Putting the Islamic Secular in a little 'overview' diagram, this is what I've got so far. Maybe the two circles should overlap in a way if only a little?
@FaheemAMHussain
ustadh approval?
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The RSF have absolutely no shame, coded with Qarmatian evil - a gathering of the dirt of society invoke the name of God as they deliver unspeakable horror. Kill every last one of them.
Impossible to believe we’ve come to a point where we pray for the SAF.
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Most soldiers were also illiterate ofc, and wouldn’t have the chance to document their experience if it occurred to them.
Nonetheless, there’s a LOT of works out there (especially late Ottoman literature), most are untranslated and highly likely to be privately owned.
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How is a state actor demanding a population exchange make it okay?
Both Turkey and Greece forced people out of their homelands that they've lived in for centuries just because they were of a different ethnicity. That's ethnic cleansing 101.
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Are we just going to ignore Persia?
Besides, the Ottomans didn’t need to go down to India for whatever reason. They’ve secured the Indian Ocean trade through alliances axes from Yemen and the Horn of Africa to Gujarat and Indonesia.
“If Suleiman, instead of flooding Hungary and Austria with his janissaries, had included the conquest of India among his plans, his efforts would have been crowned with a success far greater and more durable than those which awaited him on the Danube.”
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Muslims should try to stay away from bickering with foreigners. Their own academics refute these base monolithic views of history, but it'll never penetrate pop-history for obvious reasons.
Unfort a lot of Muslims buy into the same narratives due to image making, its unhelpful.
Map is misleading but for the wrong reasons.
Despite that, funny that wiki is used as a "fact check"
3rd is just conquests in India?
All of these "turning point" battles have been shown to be overblown exaggerations, but they'll refuse that to uphold a certain image of history
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Talismans and warding objects must be one of the coolest phenomenons in Islamicate history, tells us so much about an individual's perception of the world.
Now it feels like only this *thing* survived to the boring present
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As seen earlier, the newspapers were in direct conversation,
Here's an Arab-Ottoman advocating for a multi-lingual multiethnic OE and his Turkish counterpart insisting on the linguistic Turkification of the whole Empire:
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To start, here is a resident in Lebanon demonstrating the rise of ethnic tension and distrust in the Empire, highlighting the will to domination amongst Turkish elements.
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As we will see later, the CUP and the later Young Turk Triumvirate would go on to push centralizing policies, especially in language, that were perceived as discrimination.
For Arab and non-Turk Ottomans, this culture war was an existential threat to a centuries old Ottoman home
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The rise of the Committee of Union and Progress ushered in a vibrant civil society throughout the Empire with the revival of the Parliament.
The OE demonstrated this political enthusiasm as Ottomans throughout the Domains debated on the future of the OE’s identity.
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This culminated in Ottomanism, a sense of one being a citizen of an Ottoman homeland, rather than a protected subject of an Ottoman dynasty operating from Istanbul.
A common misconception of Ottomanism reduces it to a simple sentiment of “nationalism”.
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Similar calls warning of ethnic nationalism in other newspapers, like Ikdam.
Note how Bulgarians and Armenians are still included despite recent violence and Bulgarian independence?
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Israel is nothing like the Crusader states.
The crusaders had a sense of honor, they lived in a moral framework like everyone else. The bad they did was an exception. More times of peace rather than war, they traded, culturally integrated and even befriended at times. 1/2
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