@suzania I don’t know, saving yourself from the lake of fire was a pretty big selling point in my church community growing up. I think there are a lot of Jonah’s out there who follow Jesus because if they’re in then others aren’t.

@markgaspar I just can’t wrap my head around that, intellectually or emotionally

@suzania Luke 16:19-31, Matt 13: 41-42, Matt 25:41, Mark 9:43, etc. etc. How can I be Christian if I don't believe Christ's own words? I can believe in a form of universalism, or annihilationism, I can accept that Jesus, outside of time, eternally harrows hell- I can't reject hell itself

@ztech1001 Oh for sure, I of course believe hell exists on that basis.

@suzania Most Christian’s seem to act based on their fears of Hell. “If you don’t believe in God, you go to Hell”

@elliearomalady That definitely has not been my experience of most Christians, or my own subjective experience

@suzania Yes because if hell didn't exist, the Golgotha event still stands as a dividing time in history. It is clear that Christ is a being of pure light that shines thru ages. His equivalent exists in many other religions as well. There is clearly something there.

@Salty87134109 What do you mean specifically by a “being of pure light”

@suzania I will say, one of the saddest and most striking things I ever read was a stubbornly atheist young woman who said she wavers in her atheism when she considers hell, because it feels so just and so satisfying. She was an abuse victim. 😔

@suzania I think it makes sense in the context of the perception that some people just believe in God as “fire insurance”, but…I dunno, that’s probably pretty dated now, yeah? I suspect fire-and-brimstone hasn’t been the norm for awhile

@suzania I once argued about the idea of hell with a bunch of young christian girls, and they finally told me, "Well the only reason I'm a Christian is because I know hell is real"

@suzania Try it this way: If Christian universal reconciliation was true, would there still be a reason for a person to follow Jesus now? I've heard many Christians say "no" as a specific reason why universal reconciliation couldn't be true.

@suzania It's weird because it implies that Christians are doing the whole Christian thing as a chore to stave off a bad outcome, like exercise or housework, rather than "I like this thing so much I want to be a part of it, even if it turns out not to be true" which is more where I am.

@suzania Hell questions are always strange.

@suzania Are you a Christian because you don't want to go to hell, or because you love Christ - so often the gospel is just seen as eternal fire insurance, driven by fear, rather than it being a positive thing

@suzania Hey Christians: if the Christian god came down and told you that there was no hell, would you still believe in the Christian god?

@suzania I think you can look at it 2 ways. 1. Are you a Christian bc you're afraid of hell? 2. Are you a Christian bc you enjoy the idea of other people going to hell? I've seen a lot of people basically saying yes to 2!