Every doc's got tales of nurses with wild worries that just prove the point. Like the time a nurse asked me if a patient's wheezing was due to their very moderate diarrhea. Honestly, whatever experience picked up before isn’t relevant to being a jack-of-all-trades ACP.

@SecretPhysician Exactly. PAs and ENPs/ANPs are not the same, there’s a clear difference. ANPs are much better trained to manage unknown unknowns, have a better appreciation of when to get help and appropriately supervised can practice safely. But claiming equivalence is utter rubbish.

@D__Melb Let's be frank: A HCA might handle the unknowns better than a phlebotomist, but that doesn't mean they're cut out for it. "Appropriately supervised" sounds good on paper, but in reality? You'd need to watch them so closely to match a doctor’s safety level, it'd be pointless.

@SecretPhysician Who's saying it is? Who suggests it equates to the breadth and depth of a Doctor's medical training? Why the strawman to bash another profession?

@JamesLynchGTC I saw a conversation that the EM college uses them as doctor equivalents and people in that conversation stated they are equivalent. Are you insinuating I have fabricated the point?

@SecretPhysician Always thought this - somehow saying you did a 2 year masters somehow makes you a doctor equivalent is really not good enough. And no 240 years as a nurse also doesn’t make you equivalent either. It’s different training and each should be respected.

@SecretPhysician Huge issue of NHS propaganda. All of these roles have been made to fill a gap where a Doctor should be. They are trained up in a very niche area and told they’re ‘equivalent to a middle grade Dr’. It’s plainly untrue. You cannot = a Dr if you haven’t done medical training

@SecretPhysician Ok, with that in mind, perhaps all nurses, AHPs, pharmacists etc should no longer participate in providing medical education. After all we aren’t trained to do so. Best alter that med school training to actual skills based as no nurses helping with that difficult cannula

@SecretPhysician Just because PAs are so bad means that ANPs and ACPs have got off free. It's a scandal that they are working in doctor roles. I don't mean the specialist nursing rules that are actually advanced within their profession I mean the pathetic wannabe junior doctor roles

@SecretPhysician Uk training or international?