Vlad
@vladquant
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Started with C64. End not yet in sight. CEO & founder of @KagiHQ . Humanizing the web. Prefer lists to following.
Palo Alto, CA
Joined January 2017
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Bing subreddit has quite a few examples of new Bing chat going out of control.
Open ended chat in search might prove to be a bad idea at this time!
Captured here as a reminder that there was a time when a major search engine showed this in its results.
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I have to say I sympathize with the engineers trying to tame this beast.
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Mother of all LLM benchmarks!
- Use GPT-4 if you need best quality
- Use claude-instant-v1 for everything else
- Google PaLM2 is nowhere near OpenAI/Anthropic
- OpenAI models are painfully slow compared to competition
- Open-source models next
source:
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A Googler asked today (after a very good demo by Microsoft yesterday and a very bad one by Google today) why is it that we are entering the new paradigm of search?
Aren't 99% of searches already satisfied by Google?
Well here is why..
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GPT-4 Turbo vs GPT-4 tests fresh from the oven
GPT-4 Turbo has record accuracy (87% vs 52% of GPT-4 on PyLLMs benchmark), it is almost 5x faster with 48 vs 10 tokens/sec). And it is also 30% cheaper in practice (would be more, but it is 2x wordier in output compared to GPT-4)
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Just added Google Bard to our AI "showdown" on question-answering.
Performance same as ChatGPT4, still worse than Kagi. Strong hallucinations when wrong.
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Sources for the above:
Lot more going on on Bing subreddit right now:
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Today we learned an important and expensive lesson - do not expose an LLM on the web without at least a login.
Universal Summarizer got hammered by the bots raking up huge costs. We had to take it down temporarly.
Stand alone version for logged in Kagi users and API coming
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Next release of Orion browser is featuring support for native web apps. No more resource-hungry Electron apps; Orion will make websites available as WebKit-powered native apps!
In this video I am creating a new Web App and also starting four other web apps I created previously.
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I like how this puts things into perspective.
- Bing is still a tiny speck in the universe and has less traffic than ChatGPT
- Both of them added together are same as Yandex
- Google towering above everything
Don't think I'd prefer running any of those over Kagi though. ❤️
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Microsoft just announced a pricing update for their search API.
Everything just got 4-5x more expensive, across the board, starting May 1st.
This is a pretty big deal.
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"Giving BERT a calculator"
Big step in adding computational abilities to language models. Still no understanding but can certainly start to fool you. What happens if you "give BERT" thousand other similar abilities? cc
@GaryMarcus
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For example, Google is 25 years old, has the smartest people, best search technology and yet can not give an answer to a simple question my kid would ask like:
"Do more people live in Madrid or Tel Aviv?" (?!)
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This year has been extraordinary for Kagi. We had tremendous support from our customers, and have just crossed 10,000 members pioneering the next frontier of search.
Thank you. We really appreciate it. 🙏
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AI will do all of this automatically and unlock a whole new category of "searches" that did not exist before.
Another example is "Give me the names of all Palo Alto based CEOs that run companies in the search space with less than 50 employees".
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If you liked FastGPT you are going to love ExpertGPT.
We are going very deep with this one. Performing multiple searches using the power of Kagi search, and the best available LLM models to always find the right answer to your query.
Already beating all competitors in our
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They are probably right to begin with.
What they are missing is that searches currently being made are a small subset of total searches that can be made (my guess is <10%), and will be unlocked by this new paradigm of search, enabled by LLMs.
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Forget gpt-3.5-turbo.
claude-instant-v1 from
@AnthropicAI
is the new star of AI models.
Compared to gpt-3.5-turbo it is 4x faster, 2x cheaper and similar quality.
Run your own benchmark with PyLLMs which we just released today.
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So if alternative business models haven't disrupted search in the last 20 years, why are they going to start now?
Because now is a good time, disruptive technology is here, and 10 links supported by ads and tracking had a good run, but the civilization is moving beyond.
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@jdjkelly
GPT-3 can not replace web search. There are whole categories of queries that a LLM is helpless with. Think navigational queries , shopping /reviews, location aware, 'grep the web' style queries just to name the few.
Search + AI hybrid on the other hand, has a chance.
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It is happening, we are going unlimited search for $10/mo. Go Doggo, go!
We're thrilled to bring you the news you've all been eagerly awaiting - Kagi is now available with unlimited searches for just $10/month!
More in our announcement:
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Just cancelled my Twitter Blue subscription. I am all for paying for the product and not being one.
But the number of ads I was still seeing in my feed was astounding and intelligence insulting. There should be zero ads shown to paying customers, otherwise what is the point?
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Queries like this are a real need and belong in the vast pool of searches that will be (eventually) unlocked by AI.
Final query example: "Summarize the latest research on quantum gravity for me".
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My twitter feed is full of auto-gpt/baby-agi stuff and after thinking through this, one thing is clear. This is not AGI by any stretch of imagination. It is does not even appear to be a step on the path to AGI.
Furthermore, due to autoregressive nature of GPT models, the more
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A better way to read the news on the web has arrived.
Let the AI rewrite news stories to keep neutral, objective tone while exposing biases.
We are building this native in Orion browser but anyone can re-use code + prompt:
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The upcoming release of Orion browser will feature “Custom Actions” which are programmable toolbar buttons.
This allows us to execute any code, including calling a GPT model!
How about, creating “Unbiased News” button, that will give us unbiased version of the news article
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Very interesting hybrid approach (neural network + symbolic computation) leads to almost perfect math puzzle solution scores. NN is trained to interpret input and feed it to a symbolic calculator. cc
@GaryMarcus
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Does the user want to do 20 searches and read hundreds of pages of documents or they really want an AI to produce a summary with citiations, 5 seconds later?
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Thank you 20,000+ wonderful people around the world for making more humane web centered around user needs possible 🙏
Today we are celebrating reaching 20,000 members!
For this occasion we have a special surprise in store for all our members.
Read everything about this significant milestone:
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The only reseaon this search is not a thing today is because Google is not capable of satisfying it - at least not directly (30 searches and numerous ads later you might eventually find an answer, but that is not the point).
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If we reach 50,000 paid subscribers, I am coloring my hair atomic turquoise
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With ad-suported search, brands are forced to bid for own keywords or be outbid.
Users are forced to see either bunch of irrelevants ads or if the business obeys same site twice, first as an ad and then real result.
This behavior is intelligence insulting. Humanize the web.
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My collection of modern macOS browsers is up to 110 now. Favorite one circled.
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Presenting "Mother", concept of AI+web search. The future of search is clearly user-centric. Users want the best possible answers, with no ads and no distractions.
This shows just some ideas we are playing with, to invite feedback and discussion.
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Ads destroyed the web.
After 30 years, we have a web that is slow, degrading and intelligence insulting. Most of this has been caused by choosing ads as its primary monetization vehicle.
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Small quality of life improvement in Kagi search since our last update: Direct link to Hacker News and Reddit discussions in search results
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Mozilla made improvements to Firefox performance and it is becoming competitive again.
Run a few tests on my own and the results are:
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A user just posted this on our Discord:
Orion browser hits 411 in Speedometer on a new M2 Macbook Pro.
What makes this *wild* is that this is faster than Safari and Chrome, both of which are built by trillion dollar companies, and one of them actually made the OS+hardware.
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Kagi AI chat will allow the user to ask questions about any document in the search results.
Here I am demonstrating 'talking' to a recent discussion on HN.
This is a cool way to get summary and context.
And I am pretty mindblown in terms of where will this take us.
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Another thing launched today in Kagi search is the Code widget.
Find what you are looking for, even if it is hidden in the in the depths of Github.
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We are waging interest for opening the Universal Summarizer API.
The cost would be 3-4 cents per 1,000 processed tokens (in+out). Comment or DM if you are interested.
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Kagi vs Bing AI
'show me the summary of latest research in lung cancer"
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In the browser world, Chromium dominance is often a topic.
But at least on Mac, browser diversity is not a problem as the image below illustrates. Consumer has enough choice.
It is up to us, WebKit and Gecko browser makers, to up our game and produce a worthy alternative.
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I had an elderly gentleman call my phone number, ask if this is "Orion browser company" and proceeded to ask if we supported El Capitan (macOS 10.11). He read great things about Orion and wanted to use it on his 2011 iMac. We only do down to 10.14 unfortunately.
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How much RAM do browsers really use?
Most tests disregard the child processes launched by the browsers. So we built a tool that uses "less known" (kahm, kahm) system calls to identify and sum them all up.
Pictured here is the tool profiling Chrome with 5 tabs open. (1/3)
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One of the reasons I started working on a browser is the ability to right the wrongs.
Reintroducing the native RSS feed indicator in Orion browser. Waited for this for a long time. Yeah baby!
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Very impressive zero-shot reasoning capabilities of the new GPT-3 based AI chatbot. This surpasses the recent davinci-003 update.
Why this matters? Think two years from now, when such kind of AI reasoning powers new wave of search and productivity apps.
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Kagi search passed an independent security audit, receiving the highest possible rating of “Highly Secure”
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We are entering the "Smart browser" era!
We started integrating AI capabilities in Orion browser.
The potential is mind-twisting and the demo shows just a fraction of ideas we have been experimenting with in the last 7 days.
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My collection of unique macOS web browsers continues to steadilly grow, and is at 118 now,
Most browsers are clones of Chromium - but there are at least 10 browsers proudly standing under the WebKit banner here.
Can you spot them?
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Ready for a browsing revolution? Try Orion Browser now!
Even in beta, it's leaving the competition in the dust with blazing speed and game-changing features! 🔥
Major Orion Browser release lands with over 160 new features, improvements and bug fixes.
This is our largest release ever:
1/n
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Woo hoo! Noncommercial lens in Kagi Search comes to the rescue for what would usually be a painful search experience otherwise. Sorry Google, but such a night and day difference!
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What is the fastest browser on macOS?
You could call me a collector of macOS browsers (at my latest count I have 47 of them, list later in the thread) and I decided to test a subset of prominent/interesting ones today.
First, here are the results!
(1/5)
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Watching WWDC and seeing Safari introduce Profiles and WebApps with WebKit - things Orion already did in the last few months. We were playing the catch up game for a long time and now for the first time it feels we are ahead of Safari and perhaps even inspiration for its
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Interesting - GPT4 with Code Interpreter is not just the same old model with enabled Python, but it appears to be a new and improved version of GPT4.
It is now able to properly answer a few tricky questions that GPT4 struggles with.
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I was talking to a few tech reporters this week about the evolving landscape of search and AI. I can't play 3D chess with Satya & Sundar but can offer my perspective from someone building a search startup.
Main takeaways:
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A $600 open source model that is 80%-90% as good as ChatGPT running on your laptop is marking the beginning of an era where models do not matter but what you do with them. UX becomes the actual IP.
"Genie escapes" or maybe "the Emperor has no clothes?"
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Orion Browser by Kagi, Speedometer 2.1, M2 Pro
Feels good to be the fastest browser on Mac
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Nice prelude into Chapter 2 at Kagi Search.
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This has been a personal pet project and am very proud of it.
We manually curated list of blogs that we are crawling for new posts and surfacing in Kagi search results to add to diversity and quality of search and to provide a platform for humans with genuine content.
As a part of our ongoing mission to humanize the web, we're thrilled to announce the launch of Kagi Small Web initiative.
Learn more in our announcement blog post:
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Gmail has HTML mode accessible through
Very useful in low bandwidth situations!
After the devs spent probably hundreds of hours optimizing the entire Gmail inbox to load in ~20KB👏🚀 somebody came in and casually slapped a 26KB favicon.
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Kagi Small Web has completely filled my "daily dose of humanity" needs.
I have it as a first bookmark in my browser toolbar, hit it once/twice a day.
It is refreshing to read content from real humans from websites that look the same with our without an ad blocker. Index is
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We decided to go transparent with our business metrics.
My favorite chart is the one showing how many families have embraced Kagi as their search source. Number is still small but impact on their lives is huge. This is what we are building Kagi for.
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Orion browser is the King of Mac!
Very excited to announce that Orion is once again the fastest browser on Mac, achieving 370-380+ on M1 machines in the popular Speedometer benchmark!
But don't trust me, verify for yourself ;)
Download the latest beta:
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Here is how the new Time Machine feature works in Orion iOS.
Imagine you hit a dead link or just wonder what a web page used to look like.
Orion will show all the years you can travel back in time for that web page, all one tap away.
(credits to
@internetarchive
)
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Want to decide whether Starfield will be worth your time and you want personal and unbiased reviews? (I did)
Solution: Use Kagi's "Small Web" lens. Results deliver.
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The future of search is user-centric.
"You search engine will be able to digest pages of documents, even entire books or videos, to come up with a 200-word summary."
Here is the demo of abstractive summarization of text of any size, at ~10 pages/s
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We are over 5,000 subscribers for Kagi and Orion. Still zero marketing budget and all being organic word of mouth growth.
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We are getting ready for spatial computing! One of our engineers made a working prototype of Orion browser running in the new Vision Pro from Apple.
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Continuing to have a lots of fun. Now have three custom buttons: Unbiased News, Summarizer and My Warren Buffet.
Each uses a custom prompt targeted at analyzing different type of content.
There is something magic in all this being native in the browser.
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Search was never free, you just paid in different currency (attention/data).
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Our new search AI prototype has been very useful in learning more about my recent Twitter followers. It can take a twitter handle and search the web to produce a summary with references. Uses search + GPT3.
Let me know if this is any good :)
@IgorCarron
@achowdhery
@nicosteeg
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We have just launched the public beta with payments for Kagi and Orion;
And there are people actually paying for a search engine and a web browser! *gasp*
Welcome to the more humane web!
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@paulg
@SirchTheWeb
A better approach would be sorting by number of ads/trackers on the site - inversely correlated with the quality of information.
But you would need a modern search engine to do this, not one that is 25 years old ;)
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Kagi and Orion are planned to enter public beta with payments tomorrow. What can go wrong…
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Thanks Microsoft, consumers must be thrilled to share a future with advertisers, and can't wait to give them rich insights into their intent, through deep conversational engagement, so that advertisers can better engage with them.
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If you want to show data from an LLM (your own) with search results from Bing, your price can go up to 20 cents per search! This change is effective immediately.
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What is theoretical speed of an AI + a full web search engine? FastGPT answers the question.
For every query, FastGPT runs a full web search and runs it through an LLM model. We are typically seeing first character at just 900ms!
We launched FastGPT, experiment in fastest possible AI with built in search.
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Word on the street is that there's a growing underground movement of Googlers who are covertly using Kagi for their search needs.
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How to magically make web more open by using Orion browser.
Target: Google Meet
Problem: "If it ain't Chrome, it ain't working"
Solution: Make Orion be whatever it needs to be
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@MetaAI
Please do not call it open if one needs to request access and wait or be denied access. It is easy to make something really open.
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It has been three months since Kagi launched the public beta for Kagi search and Orion browser.
Where are we now? What are we thinking about? Read everything about it in our status update post.
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Historic moment! "Chrome" style Profiles have landed in Orion beta 121! Enjoy!
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Time flies!
The idea of user-centric search and browser that you pay for with your wallet instead of with your attention, time and private data is real.
There's no turning back now - this movement is here to stay.
Thank you for being a part of this
A year ago today, we took a leap with the launch of Kagi Search & Orion Browser's public beta. Your enthusiastic embrace humbled us. 🙏
Thank you to each one of our valued users and supporters - you're the reason we're here today. Here's to many years together! 🎉
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All browsers were measured with no extensions and 5 tabs of CNN loaded.
Here are the results!
(2/3)
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Sharing a few slides from my recent meetup presentation on "AI" search engines.
Key takeaways:
- Paradigm of search is changed forever
- But nobody still knows what the winning UX is
- The core of most "AI" search engines can be replicated in 9 lines of Python code
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Interesting thing happens when you give a powerful LLM like GPT-3 access to the web. It is able to overcome its inherent weaknesses and nudged to 'reason' within the context of new data.
Comparison between GPT-3, ChatGPT and the web enabled GPT-3 prototype (public demo soon)
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That did not take long. A perfect way to ruin a promising concept in search.
Bing Chat now has Ads!
It's going to be fascinating to see how the unit economics of Ads in language models will unfold and affect search advertising.
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Kagi Small Web initiative was met with great reception.
Thanks to everyone who contributed. The list grew to about 7,000 personal websites and 700 YouTube channels, all now indexed and platformed through Kagi Search.
Explore them here:
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Most promoted and blocked domains among Kagi Search users:
HN discussion:
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It took us 4 months to get to this point. Congrats to the team!
And apologizes to the users for the lack of updates, we were just heads down working on this.
Don't miss the blog post !
We are happy to announce the new pricing plans and the launch of generative AI integration in Kagi, both to happen on March 15.
Read everything about it in our blog post:
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