Ziad Basyouny Profile
Ziad Basyouny

@ZBasyouny

Followers
6,443
Following
280
Media
265
Statuses
8,168

Hope is a dangerous thing,it can drive a man insane

sydney
Joined June 2020
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 months
صديق مصري بيقدم علي الجنسية في أستراليا، الورق واقف. موظف إدارة الجنسية مش مقتنع انه كان ظابط جيش (٣سنين) في وزارة الإنتاج الحربي علي خط إنتاج حلل ومعالق في ٢٠٠٨، الموظف قاله هنرفض لو مجبتش دليل،راح جاب المنشورات بتاعتي تريقة علي قائد خط الجمبري من علي الفيس وخدها ايفيدنس 😂😂😂
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
WA will open it is borders on 14/03 first AFL game on 16/03 wow what a coincidence 🤣
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
13 days
تكرر السؤال علي الخاص عن توقعي لعودة السوق السوداء وارتفاع سعر الدولار فيها وامتي ده هيظهر، خليني اشرح بسهولة - السوق السوداء لازالت موجوده بس علي خفيف مش بالوضوح اللي كان موجود قبل رمضان، تعرف ان السوق السوداء انتهت لما إتاوة ال 10 ٪ بتاعت الدولار في البنوك تنتهي وتبدل دولارات…
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
The poster girl of COVID zero had fallen, NZ currently have 4 % of the population recorded as active cases & probably one of the highest daily infection rates per capita around the world
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
some of those who were advocating for keeping aussies stranded overseas by keeping borders shut are crying blood now over a late PCR test that might delay them away from a nice beach holiday or a family visit - a practical case of what goes around comes around
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
mask mandates are about to go in the 2 biggest states in ozland, if you are uncomfortable about this keep your mask on & avoid socialising in areas where you think there is a higher risk of transmission. u don't need a public health order to look after yourself
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
AMA is a union not an actual medical/educational entity & it represents less than third of the doctors practicing in Australia currently so not everything their leadership vomits means it’s shared by all Australian medical practitioners
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
before anxiety levels climb the new french variant reported by media hours ago is B.1.640.2 & it ain't new. It was actually reported in mid nov 21. It's a sub-lineage of B.1.640 & it couldn’t even compete with Delta. so hold your horses please i see it going nowhere vs Omicron
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
Australia only banning South African countries is a joke
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
First sequenced omicron was over a month with Over 45k cases over past 15 days,0 death today with less than 1 death daily average over the past month,if this continues then we are getting closer to endemicity-to put in perspective flu death in Aus=2.3 per day
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
NZ will extend isolation rules to 24 days for house hold members of a positive case. Let’s see how NZ can manage their furloughed staff in supply chains, critical work & health care workers. It would be interesting when the inevitable full blown omicron wave starts
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
In WA it was illegal to use RATs (fine 20 k) now it’s literally the opposite,if u have a positive RAT & u don’t register it you get 50 K fine. Legal/political mood swings
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
I’m one of dr that helped establish Covid care in the community for one of the worst affects NSW LGA’s,with the current decline in cases I will be happily unemployed by the end of this months & I love it
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
a success story in 12 lines,absolutely proud to being a small part of this story
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
4 weeks after the first sequenced case of #Omicron in Australian & no ICU cases from it despite daily record case numbers almost entirely driven by that new variant
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
Australian Death stats (pre-pandemic) 2017 160 K 2018 158 K 2019 169 K average = 162 K per year = 443 death per day
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
this 24 days isolation thing for house hold members of a positive case in NZ almost makes china looks good
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
Had a long chat with @SquigglyRick he was not suggesting that physician would compromise patients care to conceal admission numbers,hospitalisation definition can make things look different to both sides of any conversation,we will likely record a podcast episode about COVID
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
Daily death per million in Nz (mask mandates) vs Au (No mask mandates) Oops
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
First sequenced omicron in nsw was about 5 weeks ago with Over 50k cases over past 16 days,3 death today with less than 1 death daily average over the past month-to put in perspective flu death in Aus= 3.4per day in 2017 (1255 flu death)
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
whats the idea behind PCR testing to enter QLD when they have 1158 cases with 3.6 % positivity rate ? whats the idea of testing at all
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
NSW 85.5 % single dose,60 % double dose,I was wrong to assume that 90 % was undoable,I happily stand corrected
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
NSW is getting close to peak case numbers-yet hospitalisations are not tracking with it (same in vic),first sequenced Omicron was nearly 5 weeks ago-with omicron infectivity it means: despite it running wild it failed to produce a similar admission rate like delta did at its peak
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
1 month
@aabdeen24 طيب وانا اشتريها من علي النت ليه ما اروح اشتري السيرفر كله من الموظف اللي هناك اكيد ارخص والمعلومات Updated وهوفر فرق العملة
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
burnt modelling predicts NSW will have 10,000 new premiers by end of October
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
worked for NSW @ height of delta,had at one point over 3000 patients to look after in the community,just to correct the misinformation about the lag in hospital/death,pts either get sick within the first 5 days after diagnosis or at day 11,rarely anyone deteriorates after 2 weeks
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 months
@nono_oldisgold بلاش طيبه السوق الموازي لازال موجود الاسعار فيه بس نفس اسعار البنوك وده هيستمر لفترة وجيزه لحد ما نطلع ب أفكار شبه زراعة ورد النيل في قناة السويس وعمل اكبر في العالم كوبري بين السنبلاوين والمريخ في خلال ١٢-١٨ شهر سعر الدولار هيوصل ١٠٠ جنيه في السوق الموازي
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
Dr chant just said it #OmicronVarient is 60-80 % less risk of hospitalisation compared to delta
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
With the daily increase in covid death Panic porn merchants will remind us of the covid zero days when we had no covid death in AU but they won't mention suicides, missed cancers, untreated common disease & the likes. they are either ignorant or it just serves their narrative
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
NSW daily case records with minimal increase in hospitalisations & no increase in death.if you didn't understand the word vaccine decoupling that is it.highly vax population with highly infectious virus will cause minimal increase in hospitalisation & death despite high cases
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
First sequenced omicron in nsw was about 5 weeks ago with Over 70k cases over past 18 days,3 death today with less than 1 death daily average over the past month-to put in perspective flu death in Aus= 3.4per day in 2017 (1255 flu death)
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
I can’t in good conscience support locking out parts if the society based on their medical decisions,once vic reaches high enough vax rates to stop the overwhelming of the health system,unvaccinated should be allowed back in life
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
Neither COVID zero nor lockdowns can be long term strategies,they serve to buy you time till u get as many vaccinated,the issue 4 me was the lack of this particular concept explanation to the public to the point that we have people now thinking these were goals not strategies
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
If the #OmicronVariant is really a mild case of Covid without any increase in mortality u’d want it to spread more that’s actually how pandemics end,they turn into endemicity (low mortality with high transmission),this probably can signal the start of the end of the pandemic 🤞
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
Raina McIntyre(09/2021): Our model estimates there will still be numbers in the high thousands by middle of October Nsw (literally middle of October): less than 500,astonishing how some people keep their jobs despite obvious mistakes
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
Today I reached a milestone in my life,approximately 50k vaccinated(~40k mass vax hub + 10k Gp + outreach).supervision,preparation & administration of those vaccines are probably some of my proudest moments in my medical career,very thankful for that opportunity,thx @NSWHealth
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
I really like the new QLD CHO-clear consistent concise & as evidence based as possible,great choice by Qld premier
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
39,000 cases most are #OmicronVariant in NSW over the last 2 weeks,0 death today with an average of 1 death per day over the same period thx vaccines
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
First time out in Sydney today for the past months as I had to go overseas & kept myself at home for nearly a week after arrival,people obviously have moved on from COVID except on this bird app
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
NSW removed mask mandates for most of the state today,that’s the legal requirement.if u r not comfortable continue to wear a mask there is no mandate against wearing them.don’t panic you can still wear your mask
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
Legacy RAT results will make today probably the highest day of case numbers in nsw & the whole of Australia. Hold your nerves and don’t buy this panic porn that will lighten this bird app after 9 am
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 months
لما تشوفوا عبيد الوطنية وهما متضايقين عشان حد اتكلم علي سرعة النت الضعيفة في مصر تعرف صدق هذا الكلمة العظيمة patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel الوطنية هي الملاذ الاخير ل ولاد الاحبه
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
by far the biggest mistake in the Australian covid pandemic response is not fighting the idea of COVID zero life early on, people should have been told the reality, COVID zero is unsustainable for the long run, it's a temporary solution till u get more beds & as many vaccinated
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
1 month
@itsjustleqqaa_ وانا اتنازلت عن حلم شراء شركة تسلا والاحتراف في ريال مدريد وشراء نادي ايفرتون
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
Upto 50% of NSW COVID admissions weren’t 4 the virus-was found incidentally on routine testing meaning you go 2 ED for broken bone,get tested as per protocol,get a positive-get admitted to covid ward but actually here for ur bone.the main reason I chose icu as my metric for panic
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
delta remains 75 % of icu admissions despite over 130 K of omicron
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
if gladys is drafted in warringah,she will win over zali hands down (crushingly) & i won't be surprised if she ends up being first female liberal PM
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
The massive single jump in nsw cases is related to completion of outstanding tests,test numbers are up nearly 200 %,we are closer to the peak (still think it’s within 7-10 days)
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
i don't accpet that the increase in Vic covid infections is related to either riots or GF parties,this had been a sustained increase for over 6 weeks,it is a result of lower testing>>missed cases>>more infections while in community >>unknown clusters>>more cases with less testing
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
@nick_coatsworth @Glaven1994 i am one of 2 Drs who helped establish HITH like system for worst affected LHD with the current delta outbreak,this article is pure misinformation bordering on disinformation,those patients i am currently looking after are not hospital material,if unwell we admit immediately
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
34 out of 52 COVID ICU patients in Nsw are unvaccinated delta patients with less than 5 omicron patients,get vax if U didn’t & get your booster if u r 3-4 months after your 2nd shot
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
wow how great were border closures against non wealthy african countries to stop omicron obviously it worked
@Qantas
Qantas
2 years
Today, Qantas flights between Sydney and Johannesburg resume. #QF63 has just taken off for South Africa. Follow the journey via @flightradar24
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
The constant failure of SA,Denmark & UK to generate bad omicron news headlines must be irking doomsday day marshals.attention will turn now to NSW & VIC.btw guys hospitalisation dropped in SA over the past couple of days
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 months
@Almanassa_AR @hossambahgat اقسم بالله احنا عايشين في Infinite loop of mediocrity ده نفس السبب اللي اتقال لما السعودية رفضت تشتري نفس الشركة من ٦ شهور
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
From a Discussion with another HCW about 5 mins ago (reg capacity)
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
I sincerely don’t understand how NSW(no lockdown,lower positivity rate,lower disease burden)still testing 30,000 more than VIC,NSW surveillance testing ended 10 weeks ago,the only explanation is gov messaging makes a massive difference,VIC Achilles was & remains abysmal testing
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
Studies & numbers from UK,SA,Denmark confirms a mild illness from #OmicronVarient but doomsday merchants won’t acknowledge that,may be death lags by 40-50 years & we need to spend next century in lockdown 1/4
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
I really hope the Novak thing can get some attention to those Asylum seeker plight. They had been in the same hotel for months
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
This messy transition from COVID zero to something was not expected. This government knew about post opening wave, knew about testing capacity issues, knew about the value of RATs. I guess we(voters) were wrong to assume some degree in competence
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
I know doomsday marshals won’t like it but Less than 6 weeks from first sequenced omicron & Gauteng South African cases are in decline with no increase in hospitalisation or death
@rid1tweets
Ridhwaan Suliman
2 years
Turned! 🙏🏽 Confirmed #COVID19 cases in Gauteng 🇿🇦 now on a decline, having peaked at case incidence of ~67 new cases per 100k, ~90% of delta wave peak, and currently showing a halving time of ~11 days 📉 #Omicron #OmicronVariant #Gauteng #Covid_19
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
on the 28/06,Blacktown had a vaccination rate of 20.6% single dosed,on 12/09 Blacktown with 92.6% arguably one of the best public health campaigns in Australia’s history, thx @NSWHealth ,thx everyone who worked to get this wall up
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
N95 masks are mandated in Singapore & available freely from vending machines at each corner of that city
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 months
@HanyBakhit2 مش كل مرضي السكر ممنوعين من الصيام
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
25 days
عشت جزء من حياتي (في مصر) متيما بالرأي الواحد ابيض او اسود خصوصا في زكاة الفطر تطلع حبوب بس حتى هاجرت لاستراليا وعشت اول عيد فطر في منطقة بدون مسلمين الا من اسرة تركية يمتلكون مطعم دونر كباب تركي استفسرت منه: هتطلع فين زكاة الفطر؟ رد الاب (تركي) نخرجها نقودا في تركيا عن طريق…
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
Uk Omicron = 581 cases 0 hospitalisation 0 death 7 % reinfection Vs 0.4 % for delta doubling time 3 days 2 AZ = 0 neutralising AB 2 Pfizer = 30-40 % neutralising AB booster gets this to over 70 % encouraging data
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
Let’s recall when NZ pm made Sydney an example of what not to do,NZ with more daily cases than NSW,Auckland with more daily cases than Sydney for the past 2 days,NZ with higher positivity rate than NSW,NZ with restrictions,nsw nearly none,delta will hunt u if u think u can beat’m
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
6 day decline in the hospitalisation growth rate = rate of admissions to NSW hospitals with COVID is declining
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
i really hope people can learn this simple reality
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
Nsw 165,NZ 173 cases today,only 85 in Sydney but 163 in Auckland,let’s all recall NZ locked less than 4 hours after case1 was detected.we all recall NZ PM using Sydney as the bad example,delta will eventually be everywhere (lockdown or not)so get vax ASAP+fix ventilation+boosters
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
Had to drive to Westmead ED + Blacktown ED over the past 4 hours. Counted 5 waiting in Westmead waiting room to be seen + 4 in Blacktown. For a Friday morning I’m shocked, this is even better than a normal non pandemic Friday morning
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
1 year
Norman swan Ain't a Dr, ABC portrays him like one but he is not, he was but he is now a journo, so like other journos he will make sensational uneducated statements then try correcting it later, if you view him this way you will be far more comfortable with all the crap he says
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
Masks work in hospitals & lab conditions, mandates don’t work, it’s a nice fanciful idea the law abiding citizens will put’em correctly all the time, not to mention transmission curves are nearly similar between us states/counties that introduced mandates & those that didn’t
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
today is one of the most important case number in NSW as it represents the midway point of the a potential transmission following the opening day,7 days exactly,case numbers are still on the decline,reff decline,Hospitalisation on decline,ICU on decline,a great day all around
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
No #OmicronVariant ICU admission yet in NSW despite record case numbers for sometime now
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
Nsw hospitalisation & ICU numbers on an obvious declining trajectory, peak hospitalisation was last week. Panic porn merchants will doubt it then will tell u they all died. They clearly have no idea about the inside works a hospital or understand the concept of death lagging
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
i can see no argument in favour of not letting stranded aussies back in NSW & VIC today,get them back,home Quarantine
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
Current hospitalisation (I think icu also but not clear yet) is tracking better (lower) than best case scenario modelled by NSWhealth
@RichardfromSyd1
Richard from Sydney
2 years
@NSWHealth Actual observed hospitalisations and ICU load vs NSW Health model Currently tracking trajectory lower than the best case modelled for hosp (can't tell for ICU) @NSWHealth , now we have this model () can you add a graph like this showing actuals vs model?
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
really surprised sensible people still read tweets from raf epistein & co-they r stuck in a childish universe of us vs them.soon pandemic will end,they will lose relevance.keep reading to those who enrich your twtr experience with evidence & critical thinking not childish tweets
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
sydney airport got 19 flights yesterday of fully vax aussies,only a single positive case,we had more cases in nsw than the whole of the crew of all those flights,hey scomo open the borders to vax temporary residents & visitors
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
First omicron was sequenced on 09/11/21,SA recorded 40000 cases over the past 5 days yet there is not a single death of the #OmicronVariant ,I know that doomsday marshals won’t consider this a good thing but I’m sure others will
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
17 days
#شوية_طب - فيتامين د هو مركب كيميائي مهم في حركة الكالسيوم داخل الجسم - يتكون فيتامين د داخل الجسم من تأثير الشمس علي مركب آخر - يحتاج الجسم لكمية معينة من فيتامين د للمساعدة في بناء العظام و المحافظة عليها، ده الامر الطبي الوحيد المثبت علميا والمتفق عليه طبيا من فوائد فيتامين…
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
@Muna_Mire @FarazShams It’s a yearly ritual of the IDF to celebrate Ramadan by either blocking entry to the mosque or opening fire on unarmed civilians inside the mosque, what a great way to greet the months sickening
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
2/3 of nsw population agree with 70 % lockdown exit plan & less than 10 % strongly oppose it
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
what does it mean to have the biggest budget surplus ever recorded in human history when you can't provide essential service with less than a handful of COVID cases. i really feel for WA. this covid wave coming your way will hit very hard
@westaustralian
The West Australian
2 years
EXCLUSIVE: The emergency department at a big country hospital was able to fill only 12 per cent of its medical roster at times this month, a leaked email has revealed. #wanews #perthnews #health
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
NZ vs Omicron (exponential growth personified) despite locked borders & harsher restrictions than Australia
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
13 days
يا جماعة لاجئين ايه اللي هياخدوا الخدمات بتاعتكم اصحوا انتم عايشين في مصر، انتم نفسكم ملكمش خدمات اصلا ومش عارفين تمشوا في شارع مرصوف صح ولا كهرباء لا تنقطع الاخوة غير المصريين زيهم زيكم مفيش خدمات، في بهدلة وقلة قيمه والريس بيشحت علي حسكم انتم الاتنين
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
10 days
غدا نلقي الأحبه
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
Tell me vaccines reduce transmission without telling vaccines reduce transmission
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
WA covid case num about to go to the MOON
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
Donut day for international arrivals of vaccinated Aussies,open the borders for temporary residents now,it makes no sense to keep this rule
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
NSW reff dropping even more, i was predicting 800 by thursday,i am ecstatic
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
The rate of growth of positivity rate in nsw slowed down today,encouraging sign-if this continues then I’m even more certain that we are around the corner from a peak
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
I think the failure of the health authorities to deal with the COVID zero myth is likely the biggest mistake in our pandemic response
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
Dan is doing the right thing like Gladys did,kudos to both,it’s a great leadership to be able to lead your state into living with COVID despite the anxiety of the high numbers,respect for @GladysB for leading,respect for @DanielAndrewsMP for walking that same difficult road
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 months
مين فينا كأطباء ما فكرش يفتح قهوة ويسيب الطب والخرا ده كله ؟؟؟
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
15 days
اي حد يقولك قاطع عشان الحاجة ترخص فهو اما جاهل او ينافق الدولة المقاطعة لن تؤدي الي تخفيض اسعار مستدام، بالعكس قاطعت السمك اللحمة تغلي قاطعت العيش الرز يغلي طول ما مصر عايشه في اقتصاد تدوير الديون وتلبيس طواقي الديون لبعض بدون استثمار في بنيه زراعية صناعية يبقي هتفضل الاسعار…
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
Cases will continue to rise (even in WA) hospital admissions will continue to rise,icu admissions will continue to rise but looking at the Uk,Denmark & SA omicron wave we shouldn’t get to an overwhelmed ICU,the idea that omicron can be stopped & controlled is a nice myth,get vax
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
the first 3 Omicron cases were from Nov 11 in Botswana,sample in Hong Kong (ex-SA) was Nov 13. Cases now been detected in many countries.more than likely its already in Australia,closing the borders to anyone makes no sense at all
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
3 years
the curve is really bending,comon sydney lets do it
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@ZBasyouny
Ziad Basyouny
2 years
this messy transition through Omicron wasn't unexpected.this novak stuff wasn't unexpected.this shit show policy on the go wasn't a surprise,In this beautiful land we'r blessed with bipartisan idiocracy.never in my life voted liberals but doubt labor would have done any different
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